Ozymandias

I’m definitely interested in picking up a Zune - I have to recover from all the money spent on other people this month first, though. :-)

I am surprised, though, that it is packaged with additional software as Microsoft’s Media Player (especially the newer version) is so well tailored to organizing and syncing to these devices. I have a fairly large library on a machine in a home office which I access extensively via the Xbox 360 in the living room.

I have to wonder if the benefit is solely the integration of an online music store, and whether or not the Zune requires the software at all. (I think maintaining two seperate libraries would make me twitch.)

I recently purchased a zune and have been playing around with it.  Yes I agree the software is very nice if it is running.  The hardware is a nice change of pace from the ipod.  The screen is sweet and nice for video playback with the larger screen.  I have Creative Zen Vision :M  and the screen is mighty small for video like the ipods.  The two things I like the most really related to Xbox 360 integration.  1) When connected to the 360 – it has its own icon in the subfolders of the media blade and you can access all the media on it – including DRM from the $14 subscription plan.  2) Even without the zune, the 360 can access all media from the computer with the zune software.    This also includes subscription downloaded music.  It will be nice to start to see some video download from zune.net.  The bottom line is if you have a 360 integrated into a nice sound system and you like “all you can eat” subscription plans the zune is you device.  

I bought one for my wife as a Christmas present.  We have XP Pro at home and had the same issues.  So much for the preloaded content as I had to delete it all when I discovered that the Zune tried to sync my entire library!  My PC locked up once while syncing.  After about 6 or 7 hours, I got the thing working.  I like the look and feel of the device but would probably not recommend it to a person without some technical background.  casual users should stay away until these issues are resolved.  

I wish badly that I was just able to use the zune with WMP 11 instead of having to go through the Zune software.

Once it is working, the Zune is a great player and I like it much better than the ipod.  I like the perfermance, interface, big screen and durable feel.  However, a big reason I bought it over the ipod is that with some tweaking, it has great potential so long as Microsoft treats it like Xbox Live and continues to update and innovate.  I do hope my faith was not misplaced.

I installed Windows Media Player 11 last night and got the same "automatic library sync'ing" problem.

I guess if there is one lesson that can be learned in the media aggregator/sync tool field is that give the user the option to initiate rather than auto-enabling.

It definitely created confusion when i saw it, and sounds like your Zune experience was similar.

Don't overthing a good thing.

Definitely something that can be revved and tweaked.

Most modern vehicles have a 1/8 stereo input jack on the cd player.  Works a cinch for me with non iPod non Zune devices (I won't be buying either one at any point, because I have issues with One Device! One Store! One Interface! One LAW!! BOW BEFORE ME!!! products).

The lack of PlaysForSure was the dealbreaker for me.  Why abandon your own standard??  Signed up for Zune software the day it came out, and was disappointed with the interface.  People aren't going to switch services if you can't match what they are already using.  Little things wrong like only being able to purchase tracks from some screens and not others, not being able to click song names and album covers to take you to the album overview, etc.  Cancelled subscription within 2 days.  MS needs to upgrade the Zune software quite a bit, and get lots more media up there to make it worth the hardware purchase.  Did like the Zune->360 features though!

I'm curious if you could tell me about the Zune just a teeny bit.  Can you switch from the middle of an MP3, to the radio easily, and then when you switch back to the mp3, will it start right from where you left off?  My clunky old CD-based mp3 player does that and I'd hate to lose that functionality.  Creative's players would restart the mp3s.  Given I sometimes listen to 3 hour long mp3s, that's no good.

Re: "I'm curious if you could tell me about the Zune just a teeny bit.  Can you switch from the middle of an MP3, to the radio easily, and then when you switch back to the mp3, will it start right from where you left off?  My clunky old CD-based mp3 player does that and I'd hate to lose that functionality.  Creative's players would restart the mp3s.  Given I sometimes listen to 3 hour long mp3s, that's no good."

You know, I don't know the answer - didn't try that, and the Zune is now gone with my brother. If I see one at work I'll try and see what it does.

quick Comment to the feature above... Nope the Zune does not currently support this feature.. But thats not to say it never will.. One of the nice things about the zune is that microsoft designed a lot of futureproofness into it that if they wanted to add a feature all they gotta do is update the firmware.

To that note I'd Love the ability to do picture slideshow while listening to the radio that we currently can't do. :(

I got the Zune for Christmas. It's my first MP3 player (I'm 61) and I specifically got it because of the screen size and the possibility of watching video on it while I travel.

Unlike some of the others here I had no problem loading the software or getting this going under Vista. vista has given me other problems but not with the Zune. I did sync my complete mp3 files but mine was far smaller and that was my intent anyhow.

All in all I am very pleased and glad I passed on the iPod.

When I heard that MS was dumping its Windows model of world domination and adopting Apple's homogenous ecology model I figured someone had finally learned from past failures. In the last 4 years there have been some impressive MP3 players but every one of them failed at the most basic level - getting music from the computer to the MP3 player in a convenient and painless way. Boy was I ever wrong!

The out of box experience was every bit as good as the iPod. Great work. The Zune feels not quite right in the hand and I find the two tone color rather odd. But it doesn't collect finger prints. The wheel. Why? Why the wheel? It looks so right and it works so wrong! Why not a cross? Why not a diamond? Why copy the look of the iPod when you don't copy the function? Great screen. Navigation is nifty. In all, the hardware gets an almost thumbs up.

I can't help but feel the Zune hardware team made the same mistake the early Windows team did. They seem to have looked at Apple and copied most but not all of it. And since they had no clear understanding of the design philosophy behind it all, they didn't understand how their changes undermined the experience.

The software team should be taken out into the desert with nothing but their underwear and boxes of salted nuts and chips. There is no excuse for the crashes, failed syncs, and overall lousy experience. You covered the worst of it, but left out my biggest pet peeve. Points. Points? If I had kept the Zune Microsoft would never have gotten a penny from me at their store. Points obfuscate the cost of the music and force me to give Microsoft my money interest free. And I'd always have a carryover.

Yes, I packed up the Zune and sold it to a clueless kid down the street. Then I went out and did what I shoulda done to begin with. I bought another iPod. That Zune may  have been the last change MS will ever have to get money from me. The more I use the iPod, the more I read about the license and DRM limitations of Vista, the more I think Apple is going to keep getting my cash.

I've heard conflicting reports about this, so I'm hoping someone can clear this up for me.  Is it possible to use the Zune as a portable hard drive.  Can I throw my files on it and carry them around with me, or will I need to buy a seperate portable hard drive (or flash dirve)?

http://www.zunegroove.com/2006/12/29/zune-reviewed-by-xbox-launch-member/

For all those saying Microsoft could upgrade.the firmware, can't Apple do the same? I don't get it.

Andre Vrignaud is a member of the Xbox team and he just purchased a Zune for his brother. In a recent blog post he provides his opinion on the Zune. Andre was impressed with the actual Zune, but did h ...

"For all those saying Microsoft could upgrade.the firmware, can't Apple do the same? I don't get it."

Apple provides firmware updates now and then to add functionality, etc.

What are you using for a media server?  And, why did you choose lossless WMA?

Seriously guys, Zune is a mediocre product and it isn't selling that well. If you don't like the iPod for, whatever reason, there are other players out there that are far better than the Zune. Microsoft may dump a pile more money into this Spruce Goose or they may just dump it altogether...Origami anyone.

The music/video player wireless technologies coming out in 07 are mind blowing and will leave the Zune even farther behind than it is now.

I took my Zune back because Zune Tech support told me that i could not use my banks debt card to renew the subscription service. They said that it would have to be an actual credit card and not a bank card. He said they are working to correct this issue but no work around  is in place yet. I loved my Zune but i felt that this was less than a fair policy.And i bought three of them for me and my kids.So hopefully they will get this fixed cause i loved my Zune.

@Maurice Yeah when apple comes out with a firmware upgrade to give the ipod a bigger screen and wireless let me know i am all in.

Ugh.  Before Mike and Maurice devolve into a flame war...  Does anyone know if I can use the Zune as a hard drive?  Thanks.

Re: "What are you using for a media server?  And, why did you choose lossless WMA?"

Depends on what you mean by media server - ie, hardware or software. If hardware, it's one of two old P4 boxes, probably around 2.8-3.2 GHz in speed, bunch of RAM, and lots of drive space. If software, I'm currently serving up the music via Vista's Windows Media Player. I just set it to monitor the "Jukebox" share and it streams everything to either the 360 or the Roku. I'm playing with Tversity a bit because of the video transcoding - might switch to that, not sure yet.

As to lossless WMA, two part answer:

Lossless because while I love the advent of digital music, I hate the loss in fidelity overall. And coming from a history of working at music stores (and purchasing over 700 albums over the years), I had no reason not to store it all losslessly. Drive space is cheap now, and getting cheaper every day.

WMA because it takes a lot of time to rip 700+ albums, and I didn't want to have to do it again. I evaluated a few different lossless media codecs, including FLAC and Monkey's Lossless (think that's the name?), but at the end of the day I wanted something I knew I'd be able to find solutions for converting and playing 20 years from now. Like it or not, Microsoft's influence over the PC industry means WMA Lossless was the safest bet. The fact that WMA just "works" with the 360 is a happy accident - think I started ripping the library before I joined Microsoft. :)

Re: "Most modern vehicles have a 1/8 stereo input jack on the cd player.  Works a cinch for me with non iPod non Zune devices (I won't be buying either one at any point, because I have issues with One Device! One Store! One Interface! One LAW!! BOW BEFORE ME!!! products)."

Yep, true. But that 1/8 stereo input jack doesn't give me the steering wheel controls, nor allows me to hide the player in the glovebox. But I may end up just finding a way to fasten it to the dash anyway - although I like the streering wheel controls, the iPod interface has an issue in that I can't see what music I'm playing (only lets me select playlists, and skip around). Makes it frustrating when it's playing on random and I can't identify what that cool song was I just heard. Having the screen visible could solve that.

BMW 3 series...nice

I have a lot of iHate for the iPod and iTunes, and it's hamfisted way of handling my music.  I don't own one, and probably never will.  In an mp3 player I look for the ability to manage my own media, to drag my mp3's to the device and play them, and not need some special interfacing software.  The zune looks cool, but like Vista, it to successfully imitates the apple product making it restrictive and difficult to mold into the behavior I want, and after all I'm the one buying a device. Add to that the whole hit and miss syncing (not zune specific really, my wm5 phone has issues about half the time), and you have a really underwhelming product.

Vendor lock-in is undesirable either MS or Apple. However, the iPod has far less restrictive DRM than the Zune. Why can't I share MP3s to other Zunes that are created by my band? Nope, gonna wait for the next iPod with wireless.

GregD, and why do you think iPod is going to be less restrictive ever?  They both have DRM.  Apple doesn't even let you copy your own unprotected content from your iPod back to iTunes with the iTunes software itself.  Zune allows this.

The 3 day/3 play limit is there for obvious reason... ensuring the feature isn't abused.  It's supposed to be used to sample content.  The social, man.  It was a good compromise.

Heck, put your songs on your web site and they can easily download it "free" once they are happy with their sample.  Zune will keep the song info, so they can look it up.  Or just hand them a CD.  :)

Ozymandias—or as he's known to his mother, Andre Vrignaud—is a member of the Xbox team. A pretty visible member, in fact, with a blog that gives gamers an insight to both the Xbox team and the gaming industry in general....

Oz - I totally agree with your thoughts. Turn off the auto sync. You can turn that "feature" off by clicking on your Zune on the Zune menu, then on Sync Options. I did a who review on it. How about a clock or calendar? What about turning photos? What about video folders or playlists? Dont get me wrong, I love my Zune... its just a little ruff.

Full review: http://www.synergymx.com/stuff_detail.asp?ID=136

I have a ipod and a zune there are things I like about both, i like the i tunes software and how the zune interface is the interface on the ipod is to plain if the ipod had the interface of the zune and the wifi i would most certainly buy the next one the day it comes out  and for yall who were complaining about the wifi and 3day/3play song sharing if the ipod had it it would certainly have some type of rule just like the zune or the riaa would be suing them. And if for a band and you sending the song just add you website to the mp3 tag so they could get it off of your site. Also i have used the zune with vista and xp and had no problems, ive used it with xp mostly and vista as a guest and the software has not crashed or anything for me

Mediocre imitation Microsoft product fails to work on latest Microsoft imitation boondoggle, film at 11.

Compare to Apple, I've been using iTunes 7 on a Leopard dev seed for months and it has worked since day one. Perhaps Microsoft should consider copying quality in addition to everything else from Apple.

This is hilareous!!!  If an MSFT fanboi can't get this duck to lay an egg what friggin chance does the rest of the country stand??  

MSFT...  STOP BREATHING YOUR OWN GAS ON MT REDMOND AND GET DOWN INTO THE REAL WORLD!  

You're killing "innovation" by isolating yourselves in a fake version of reality.

I used to love MSFT.  I used to wait for the next version of Windoze and be all excited about your stuff.  You've done nothing but make my life hell for years and lag behind smaller companies who are showing the rest of the market how backward your thinking has become..  WHAT'S UP WITH YOU ALL???

SNAP OUT OF IT and get back to basics and do it well!  

"Seriously guys, Zune is a mediocre product and it isn't selling that well. If you don't like the iPod for, whatever reason, there are other players out there that are far better than the Zune."

See, while I understand your point and agree with your intention.  The thing is... the first mediocre product I think of in terms of mp3 players is the iPod itself.  Yet that thing dominates 80% of the mp3 player market.  

Obviously mediocrity sells.

But if you're in the market for an "iPod" there's no reason to dog on the Zune.  It may not be the best but it certainly better than the iPod.  Personally I'll stick to the Zen.

Yeah Jimmy.  You're missing the point.  It's not that the iPod is the ultimate, it's that the Zune is so frickin' bad it should never have made it off the drawing board.  If ever there was a product that screams of group think and being defined through market analysis and theory it's the Zune.  Did anyone at MSFT bother to take the time to go live in this market for a while??  If so, it sure doesn't show! - "Welcome to the social" - my ass!

You can dog on the iPod all you like.  Sure it ain't the ultimate, but you know something?  It's got 80%+ market share and that means that there's a whole lot of people out there that like it and know how to use it.  When you release a product that needs upgrades from day 1 to work half assed and still is incompatible with your lastest "flagship" OS then you've got issues.  Issues that go wat beyond Zune.  Issues that talk to the very way to design and develop products.

Come on MSFT!!  Show us why you desirve to be #1 !!!!  If you don't, Korea is waiting to show you!

Just as a data point. My local GameSpot (SF, not the middle of nowwhere) had a bunch in before the holidays.  Up until 3 days before Dec 25, they'd sold 3...  What does that tell ya?  3!  Ever found anyone else off the Remond capus who has one of these things to "share" and get "social" with??  It doesn't matter if MSFT's broken DRM gives you 3 days, 3 weeks of 3 lifetimes to share a song with someone.  There's nobody out there to share with!!!  

Great use of WiFi guys.  Ever thought of using it for something that people would actually find useful??  LIKE BUYING SONGS????? - Don't get me started on the whole Play-for-Sure-NOT thing!  Then I'd have to get bitter about spending over $800 on MSN Music only to be told that I need to spent it all over again on this brain child brick!  PLEASE!!!

Dead duck <bang>

what is a zune?

Zune was a travesty even for a company as legendary for its slack-jawed incompetence as Microsoft.

Re: "what is a zune?"

Simply put, it's a portable digital music player, and an attempt to compete with Apple's iPod. Primary differences it has from the iPod is that the Zune has a larger screen (for video viewing), as well as built-in wireless for music sharing (with restrictions), and an FM tuner. Oh, and it comes in Brown. ;)

You cannot use the Zune as a portable hard drive.  The interface is confusing, along with its 6 buttons.  I hated switching from vertical to horizontal.  The colors (black, bown) were too muted.  Brown??? Who thought that brown was cool?  In addition, the Zune weighs and feels like a brick.  Small is in, bigger is not.  Look at the sales of the new Apple shuffle.  The Zune store is confusing, just like every MS product made (Word, Excel, Poeerpoint).  And POINTS, arrghhh!!!

Do the folks at Redmond not know about sleek software, not overbloated stuff.  Crashes! Why does the Zune not install on a PC.  Yes, some of you have had luck, but others not.

Take your Zune back and buy an iPod.

Shall we call the Zune "Bob", "Origami" or how about dead on arrival?  In the end, the Zune Zucks.

Let's face it the Zune is doomed! Apple's going to announce that it sold 17 MM iPODs in the last three months. There are 150 US Apple stores where zero Zunes are sold. And where Zune are sold, there are iPODs and with tons of iPOD accessories eroding the Zune's possibiltiy of gaining any signficant market share. If anything, in its attempt to compete with Apple on this platform, MS will show that world that it's really a follower in the technology sector and not an innovator.

Was playing with the Zune at Best Buy's -- I like the UI but the player itself feels cheap to me. It doesn't have the "Wow" factor of the iPod and the wheel at the bottom   feels clunky. I realize MS can't copy the click-wheel but iRiver's interface for the Clix is pretty nifty too.

The Zune sucks!

It cannot be used as a removable hard drive.

It crashes, freezes Windows, does not synch well.  The software is not smart.

It is large, clunky.  The screen should have had at least 640x480 resolution.  The larger screen is wasted.

It does not play my PlaysForSure music.

It does not use Podcasts.

It's WiFi sharing is useless.  It doesn't even connect to my PC via WiFi.

I cannot believe how badly Microsoft (and Bill Gates) designed the Zune.

Having owned Diamond RIO500, with all of 32megs but having a nice/simple interface (could listen to an album on the subway, or for a run), it was okay. Some freezing issues aside- it was cooler that my portable CD player.

Now, getting an iPod in 2002 was pretty damn stultifying. Did RIO try to make a comeback? Did they innovate their flash ram based player? how could 32megs on a player top 5Gigs on the first generation ipod?

Flash forward to 2006- MS has the Zune to come along to just co-opt the market. No one would feel good, like, or enjoy M$ dominating anything having to do with entertainment. And for me, having had 2 ipods (nevermind how many i've gotten for gifts), it's still a wonderufl player.

They can take their predictions for 1mil zunes sold by june 2007... you think steve jobs has a reality distortion field? Get a load of that.

At best buy over the holidays i was taking a gander at the devices the virgin megastore had on display. i overheard "looks like a turd"- someone had touched the brown Zune. And i work for a company that did a commercial for the Zune. Thank goodness we weren't contracted to have to actually use one.

i have a brown zune and i think it is by far the best looking of all of them. So what?

Sheesh - Everyone has their own preferences; what makes anyone feel that theirs is the absolute gospel on the subject? There will be those who like one or the other-I happen to like both. Both have their pros and cons. The list will be different for different people. I think that iTunes is much better than the Zune music store, but like the Zune device interface better; does that mean everyone else SHOULD feel the same? No. Opinions vary, and maybe some of the folks on this board should have a bit of respect for opinions that are different from their own.

Just curious - did you use the front USB port on your computer?  There are reported issues with those not having enough power for the Zune.  I had similar issues to you and they went away as soon as I plugged it into the back of the computer.

Re: "Just curious - did you use the front USB port on your computer?  There are reported issues with those not having enough power for the Zune.  I had similar issues to you and they went away as soon as I plugged it into the back of the computer."

Hunh. Yes, now that I think about it, I did. Never thought that USB ports might get more or less power depending on where they are - would have thought the power rating was fixed per spec. Any links with more information?