Ozymandias

ooo, the sky is falling!  No wait :)  I guess being able to rip dvd's didn't kill the dvd market.  Wait, this news just in, mp3's have not closed any record studios! I'm sorry Ozy, I think this is good news all the way around. I think that in the long run, the more distribution content get's, the more value accrues to the creator, most of the folks that rip dvd's that I know, are not folks that would have spent the money on collecting them anyway, and as a collector, I can't imagine not having the box art et al.

Re: "ooo, the sky is falling!  No wait :)  I guess being able to rip dvd's didn't kill the dvd market.  Wait, this news just in, mp3's have not closed any record studios! I'm sorry Ozy, I think this is good news all the way around. I think that in the long run, the more distribution content get's, the more value accrues to the creator, most of the folks that rip dvd's that I know, are not folks that would have spent the money on collecting them anyway, and as a collector, I can't imagine not having the box art et al."

Actually, I don't disagree. Totally agree that music and DVD piracy haven't killed those markets, and I suspect the ability to use that content as a consumer wishes (portable music players, mix CDs, home media servers, etc.) has contributed to the success of those formats. My point is simply that if this crack proves true, and evolves into a way that allows users to rip the content for similar use, I believe it may give HD-DVD an edge in the market. Just my $.02.

(And can I say I'm still stumped as to why there isn't a "cents" symbol on my keyboard?)

man, I'm dizzy from all that spinning :)

of course, just because it's spin doesn't mean it's not true.  makes sense to me.

I think you're unaware that older players can be updated, without being deactivated.

Re: "I think you're unaware that older players can be updated, without being deactivated."

I'm aware of it. I just don't understand how this would actually work, without alienating a large group of early adopters. Am looking forward to learning more as this unfolds. :)

It wouldn't necessarily alienate anyone.  future discs come with the update, you put them in, it updates your player's software (in this case, it's not eve a hardware player so only the very few people who have the cyberlink software would appear to be affected, this is ultimately nothing to people who have the standalone players, assuming that what I've read is correct) and you go forward from there.

Re: "It wouldn't necessarily alienate anyone.  future discs come with the update, you put them in, it updates your player's software (in this case, it's not eve a hardware player so only the very few people who have the cyberlink software would appear to be affected, this is ultimately nothing to people who have the standalone players, assuming that what I've read is correct) and you go forward from there."

This may be the case - I just don't know enough here to have an educated opinion. <shrug> Guess we'll see what happens in the next few months.

At this point, we're all uneducated, this is the first real test of AACS and how it will actually work and affect buyers.  We'll just have to see how it shakes out.  It's interesting that we're seeing all this and managed copy isn't even close to being in play yet.

Reading between the lines, it appears that what the guy did was to read the process memory of the player and look for a byte stream that worked as a key, against his own implementation fo the encryption algorithm.

And sure, that technique can be defeated fairly easily - just don't ever store the key as a contiguous byte stream.   But the general idea can't be defeated - the key has to exist somewhere in the process, at some point.

So that's the only real option for them - to disallow all software-based players.  If they allow any at all, it won't last.

Ozy:

This is the real trial by fire for HD-dvd.

Studios as far as I can tell do not like drm but, view it as a cost of business. Much the same way Micrsoft views  the effort of authenticating windows.

If HD-DVD can not deal with the crack by preventing all future media from playing on cracked players, studios will cease to like HD-DVD. Even if that does happen if it is cracked again studios could loose any confidence they had in format.

As a studio, if you want to protect your content of HD-DVD you need to change the master in the DVD facility. IF you are really paraniod you need to pull all copies of your movies from shelves.

The market is small enough and the sales are tiny. Either format can be dropped without a second thought. If the HD-DVD format looks broken to studios they can just leave it and go to blue ray. With DVDs and css there was no equivlient competition.

Unless this crack drives sales in a big way, this can be bad.

Yes, cracking AACS so early in the game is bad, rather than good (or the other way around, if you support Blu Ray), IMHO.

Personally, I'm in the blu-ray camp, and as much as anything, I'm just curious as to what impact a truly solid copy-protection mechanism will have on the price-point, going forward.  I mean, it would be great if product became affordable enough that piracy no longer made any sense (cost of effort, materials, loss of quality etc).  If Piracy didn't exist (in any significant fashion) how would this affect the economics?

Bruce:

Cracking the AACS isn't good for bluray. It is just worse for hd-dvd.

Both Blueray and HD-dvd share the core AACS but Bluray added an extra layer of copy protection.

Price is the ultimate drm. If you make media cheap enough no-one will want to steal it. People LIKE buying things but not paying for them.

Joseph, I have to disagree, because if nothing else, it makes the decision to include extra copy-protection measures into blu-ray (and it's more than just 1 additional feature, if I remember rightly)seem like a very wise decision, and now offers a point of difference against HDDVD for the film companies to ponder.

Telling these guys that piracy won't hurt their bottom-line isn't going to fly.

The extra copy protection in blueray was a good thing.

However the primary AACS is used by both. It is a full crack for HD-DVD but it is also a step closer to a crack of BD-DVD.

It's only a matter of time. The more copy protection that is broken the more fear is spread among the studios, the more pliant they become to draconion measures and congressional wrangling.

I hope this is true and gets well supported . Mainly because like you mention I stored DVDs on my Media Server and it was great and I'd love to do the same with HD-DVD but it might worth mentioning I purchased all these legally.

But know with all these DRM's on all Online Purchased Material, it's pushing me towards illegal as the ability to do whatever you want with the formats for your different devices is the most appealing. Something unfortunately Hollywood Studios won't support.

Joseph,

Check out http://www.physorg.com/news5725.html

Blu Ray has 3 levels of protection, including a "Rom Mark"

I have to say, I personally like the idea of being able to "manage" content I purchase in the way I want to (as per BIG D 04 alludes to) but by the same token, truly rock-solid copy-protection would change media-content into a "product" in the same way we view (for example) a pair of shoes.  I mean, I've never considered it ethical to steal a pair of shoes, why do we consider media to be different?  As far as I can see, it's only the fact that we can actually do it that changes/softens our moral perceptions.

Not that I support or engage in media downloading or ripping, it is not so simple as theft of socks.

Think if media as a couch in the studios 'home'. Think of the couch as REALLY big. Big enough for everyone to sit one.

You can get an invite to sit down by purchasing a copy of a movie. But other people notice that there is plenty of open space and sneak in and sit down. Since the couch is plenty big no one else looses a seat. SO really there is no actual harm.

Just the same as  a real house if some sneaks in and uses your couch while you are gone you'd be pretty annoyed. Even worse is if someone uninvited sees you comming and just moves out of the way when you get home. They  can argue with you that the couch is fine, no stains, no harm they didn't take anything from them.

You would still be annoyed. Infact you'd be annyoed enough to put in security at your house that would annoy the people who are there legitametly.

This makes people less likely to enjoy being at your house. After all you said they could sit on the couch, why can't they make it face the window?

The movie is always property of the studios they don't spend 200 million dollars making a film to sell you all the rights for $30. You have the right to watch it, and I dare say where you want to watch it. But with people doing what they want without any premission it makes people paranoid, and security always sucks.

With tube socks you actually purchace the whole sock. It's your in every way. You can resell the sock, make a sock monkey, hand puppet or just plain wear it. Whe n you steal socks you have removed physical inventory . The store and manfacturer both loose out.

While with movies there is no physical theft or cash harm. It's a  case of trespass.

Now distributing movies is like someone else givng out invitations to your home without your permission.

Bruce,

Thanks for the link. It seems like the BD people were really thinking. The BD-MARK seems to be the most useful part of copy protection. While ripping and online distribution are getting all of the press , distribution rings do the real harm.

Honestly I can't see why a studio would support HD-DVD if it doesn't have a counterpart. It's truly brilliant to attack the actual large scale pirates.

The problem is such

-Buy a DVD with all the film on and a rack of extras and watch it on your TV

Legal

-Put that legally purchased DVD onto your PC so you can watch it on your numerous devices then that's illegal. Why?

They are your Devices, you purchased the DVD legally why can't I stick it on my PC so I can stream it to my Xbox 360 downstairs...or my Media Receiver in my Bedroom or even stick it on my Zune while I'm on the Plane.At all the stages it's me that's watching it, no one else.

So basically what ever way I go I'm doing it illegally it just depends how illegal you want to go and also how easy you want it to be.

Currently going all the way is the easiest and straight forward method. That's why people do it. They [Studios] have no one to blame but themselves , if you back a Dog into a corner he will bite so I have no sympathy for them.