Quantcast Elite Xbox 360 SKU Announced - Ozymandias

Elite Xbox 360 SKU Announced

Yep, here you go - worst kept secret ever. It'll be interesting to see how this SKU sells in comparison to both the Pro 360 SKU and the PS3 60 GB SKU. It's a lot more similar to the latter, and really, the biggest difference that might matter to people is either HDMI or interest in high-def movie playback. If you don't want either you can shift the price point significantly by picking up the Pro. For what it's worth I've had a prototype Elite for a few months now with HDMI - was helping with the testing. I honestly don't see any difference between component or HDMI visually. The biggest benefit I've found from using HDMI is simply that I can reduce the number of cables and use my A/V receiver to switch all HDMI signals. So more simplicity than visual fidelity, in my opinion. <shrug>

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Posted: Mar 28 2007, 10:25 AM by Ozymandias | 74 comments |
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Comments

vittala said:

Will there be an HDMI cable released for us early adopters? If not that kinda sucks. Also, can one buy the new bigger HD?

# March 28, 2007 10:39 AM

Mike Kozlowski said:

Frankly, I think the more natural PS3 comparison is to the 20GB unit, just because the price is basically identical.  And they're basically identical machines (on paper, ignoring the vastly superior software, ergonomics, and games of the 360), except that the 360 has a bigger hard drive and the PS3 has Blu-ray.  Given that choice, I'd take Blu-ray.  And if you want Wi-Fi, well, it's $100 extra on each of them, but the PS3 throws in a big hard drive upgrade, too.

Microsoft's done a great job here of making the PS3 seem less hideously overpriced.  Congratulations.

# March 28, 2007 10:45 AM

Ozymandias said:

Re: "Will there be an HDMI cable released for us early adopters? If not that kinda sucks. Also, can one buy the new bigger HD?"

Unfortunately there will not be an HDMI adapter released for the original 360. The HDMI spec is basically a 2-way street and requires the specific port on both sides to be enabled. This is why we had to change the box.

Yes, we did announce that you'll be able to buy the bigger HD for $179 at retail.

# March 28, 2007 10:54 AM

Giolon said:

Just when I thought MS was going to run away with this generation uncontested...they shoot themeselves in the foot. I agree with what Mike Koz said on all counts. This SKU has basically removed the price advantage Microsoft used to have. In the minds of the public, the gap between Xbox 360 and PS3 is now only $20. For $20 more, people can have a next gen-gaming console PLUS a next-gen movie player. The PS3 20GB suddenly looks like a great deal. You might argue "well the Xbox 360 has 100GB more hard drive space as a trade off", but then you should also realize that you're being charged $120 for 170GB of hard drive space...when was the last time you paid $1.50 per gig (except for when you paid $5 per gig for the 20GB hard drive if you bought that standalone)? At least for the price jump between the Core and Premium, an upgraded controller, a headset and a free Xbox Live Gold were added to sweeten the deal. Further price gouging on hard drives, another A/V port that is arguably no better than the options that already exist, plus a "free" HDMI cable do not $79 make. Oh there's the black paint. :-/ It just makes me shake my head and think "Man...Sony's hubris is washing off and Microsoft is soaking it up..."
# March 28, 2007 11:20 AM

Brian said:

In that case, will future versions of the Xbox 360 (base and HDD model) ever see the HDMI port added? "Ever" as in maybe not now but possibly later this year or next year or in a few years? Or to get HDMI will consumers always have to go with the higher price Elite model?

# March 28, 2007 11:22 AM

islandkiwi said:

Although I appreciate MS giving people choices, three different sku's seems a bit overkill.  I was hoping this would be the new 65 nm chipset, but I guess that'll come later.

I'll be happy with my premium, at least until iptv starts up.  Then it'll be time to upgrade the ol' hard drive.

# March 28, 2007 11:25 AM

Brian said:

I thought this WAS the new 65nm chip.

Ozy?

# March 28, 2007 11:29 AM

Travis said:

$179? Ouch...what a rip off

# March 28, 2007 11:30 AM

Giolon said:

I agree with what Mike Koz said on all counts. This SKU has basically removed the price advantage Microsoft used to have. In the minds of the public, the gap between Xbox 360 and PS3 is now only $20. For $20 more, people can have a next gen-gaming console PLUS a next-gen movie player. The PS3 20GB suddenly looks like a great deal. You might argue "well the Xbox 360 has 100GB more hard drive space as a trade off", but what sounds like a better selling point? "You can watch HD BluRay movies at no additional cost" or "you can save more downloaded purchased movies." Given that movie releases from every major studio except Universal are coming out on BluRay at this point and only a limited number of releases are available via XBL Video Marketplace, I'm going to go with the former. At least for the price jump between the Core and Premium, an upgraded controller, a headset and a free Xbox Live Gold were added to sweeten the deal. So basically, $79 gets you more storage, another A/V option that's admittedly (on the Major Nelson podcast) no better than the component connection that already exists, and black paint?
# March 28, 2007 11:39 AM

MHolmesIV said:

re: Microsoft's done a great job here of making the PS3 seem less hideously overpriced.  Congratulations

Luckily for me, I don't want a huge hard drive, nor do I need Wireless, or HDMI (My TV has no HDMI inputs), or the HD player. So where can I get a PS3 without all that unnecessary crap?

Oh... I can't...

The $399 xbox plays games just as well as the $779 one with HDMI and wireless and HD DVD player. (and in that case, you're paying $79 for 60GB of extra disk and a HDMI cable. Heck, retail for a 60GB SATA drive is about $80 already)

# March 28, 2007 11:40 AM

ShapeGSX said:

Does it have HDMI 1.3?

# March 28, 2007 11:40 AM

MHolmesIV said:

Er.. make that $179 extra, not as good a deal. Oh well :)

# March 28, 2007 11:43 AM

cc99999 said:

You know, I like the concept of the Elite, although I think a better name would have been Xbox 360 Black. The only thing I disagree with in marketing this product- is that it should cost what the Premium 360 cost, the current 360 should go down in price $100.00 and the Core version should be fazed out. Microsoft has a great attach rate- they could make up the revenue in publishing royalties- and by upgrading the line without raising the price they would put Sony is a very defensive position going forward. Instead, you put a premium product out that (probably) only the early adapters would want- at a price that is out of range for most consumers (even if the PS3 costs more- it is too expensive). I don't think it is the correct strategy to take at this point. If you continue doing things like this Sony will catch up with you in no time. Another thing that MS should consider- is a trade in on the Premium Xbox 360 for a black one. Even if you offered $250 and 2400 MS points- I think people would upgrade.
# March 28, 2007 11:43 AM

Giolon said:

I agree with what Mike Koz said on all counts. This SKU has basically removed the price advantage Microsoft used to have. In the minds of the public, the gap between Xbox 360 and PS3 is now only $20. For $20 more, people can have a next gen-gaming console PLUS a next-gen movie player. The PS3 20GB suddenly looks like a great deal. You might argue "well the Xbox 360 has 100GB more hard drive space as a trade off", but what sounds like a better selling point? "You can watch HD BluRay movies at no additional cost" or "you can save more downloaded purchased movies." Given that movie releases from every major studio except Universal are coming out on BluRay at this point and only a limited number of releases are available via XBL Video Marketplace, I'm going to go with the former. At least for the price jump between the Core and Premium, an upgraded controller, a headset and a free Xbox Live Gold were added to sweeten the deal. So basically, $79 gets you more storage, another A/V option that's admittedly (on the Major Nelson podcast) no better than the component connection that already exists, and black paint?
# March 28, 2007 11:53 AM

ericdrum said:

That 179 price tag on the HDD is a joke. MS is making a mistake here.

# March 28, 2007 11:57 AM

vittala said:

$179 is a bit steep. They should of included a built in wireless adapter with the Elite system then it would of been a real deal for the price.

I figure I will wait on all the over priced peripherals, in a year or so high def DVD drives should be down in price, and I was reading that they may offer rental boxes along the line of cable set top boxes, with the IP-TV services coming out later this year.

For now my 360 does the job just fine and I still have plenty of hard drive space.

# March 28, 2007 12:00 PM

bobgpsr said:

Does the Elite output audio as multichannel linear PCM when it uses the HD DVD add on to play a DD+ or Dolby TrueHD audio track?

# March 28, 2007 12:06 PM

WiNG said:

Somehow I knew that as soon as I would pick my brand new 360 they would release the damn new model... oh well... I'll keep using the VGA cable despite the fact the dashboard does not support my monitor native resolution of 1680x1050 (16:10) and I have to see the image a bit stretched...

# March 28, 2007 12:13 PM

Lam said:

I think this machine should go over really well and it compliments the new (media) partner announcements nicely.  Well done.

But my question is how does this affect people north of the 49th parallel?  I mean half the reason for getting a 360 Elite is for the storage space increase.  Any update on when we can expect a video marketplace with proper content (i.e. TV shows, movies)?

I don't know about everyone else in Canada but I can only watch so many videos about "the making of <insert game name here>" or "interview with <insert game developer here>".  

Granted you did give us South Park in HD (for free to boot)!  But really, we need content up here.

# March 28, 2007 12:24 PM

Gryffindor said:

I love my 360 and I love my HD DVD drive. After watching a few HD movies on it, even HD cable doesn't seem that nice (thanks macroblocking!). That said, I was looking forward to picking up a PS3 for blu-ray and some of the upcoming 1st party Sony games (Wipeout, Lair, Drake's Adventure, etc.). To me, the Elite has just made the $499 and $599 PS3 cheaper. In particular, I'm reminded of Peter Moore's speech at E3 when he mentioned that XBOX 360 had just had a price drop after Sony revealed prices for the PS3. While it's true that Microsoft will be riding the "silicone curve" this time (vs. Sony with the PS2 last generation), I still think Microsoft shot itself in the foot a little bit by releasing Elite at $479. The Wii is doing well. Parents who buy a Wii for the children may not purchase another console for a while. Had the core system been reduced to $229 with a memory card, the premium been dropped to $299 and the Elite debutted at $399, I think Microsoft could of effectively battled Sony and Nintendo at the same time. In addition, if blu-ray does end up being the definitive format for HD disc based content, the inclusion of blu-ray in PS3 could help off set whatever price differential exists with PS3 in 2008 and beyond. As well as the XBOX Live Marketplace is doing with movies, I still think many people like the reassurance of having games and movies in a physical format.
# March 28, 2007 12:29 PM

Brian Alexander said:

How about 5.1 LPCM over HDMI? There are a lot of us A/V nerds wondering if the 360 Elite will now decode the high-definition audio found on HD-DVDs and output it as linear PCM to our receivers over the HDMI connection. Previously it was re encoded as Dolby Digital, which resulted in some loss of quality. Also, will gaves have 5.1 LPCM output?

Also I'd like to know what version of HDMI the Elite will have? 1.3? 1.2?

# March 28, 2007 12:43 PM

Crowza said:

Ozy, you mentioned that the HDMI's only benefit for you would be for switching between your systems. But, doesn't it upscale standard DVDs to 1080i when you use the HDMI cable, like the VGA cable does?

# March 28, 2007 12:52 PM

Brian said:

I guess it's not the new 65nm chip:

http://kotaku.com/gaming/xbox-360-elite/feature-microsoft-gets-elite-247496.php

"It will not have, despite rumors to the contrary, the smaller 65 nanometer chips..."

# March 28, 2007 1:03 PM

Name said:

So you didn't notice (as tested on AVS Forums) that over 80% of the TVs capable of 1080p weren't working with the 360 on either VGA or Component.

Mostly due to them not accepting it on either Component or VGA.

You didn't notice that of the ones that did accept 108p over component over 60% (from the much smaller total list of 1080p capable sets) failed only with the 360.

You didn't notice the almost 90% failure rate of TVs capable of receiving 1080p on VGA failed with the 360.  There are even timing and voltage measurement tests showing that the 360 does not comply with any known specifications for VGA connectivity.  Instead it takes a middle ground average on some values and thus fails on most sets.

You missed all of that when testing?  Yet a bunch of users on a forum dedicated to getting the most from their AV equipment managed to figure all that out?  Fire your test teams.

# March 28, 2007 1:07 PM

I didn't notice said:

"So you didn't notice (as tested on AVS Forums) that over 80% of the TVs capable of 1080p weren't working with the 360 on either VGA or Component."

i never noticed any problems with my 360 and RGB cable running in 1080p on my new set.

i have noticed, however, that you're an idiot.

# March 28, 2007 1:26 PM

Name said:

Highly mature and reasoned response.  Backed by such wonderful facts.  At least my statements can be backed by full sweets of tests, scientific measurements as compared to specifications and a complete compatibility list by simply going to the avsforum.com and checking out the threads related to the Xbox 360's issues on 1080p sets in 1080p mode.

# March 28, 2007 1:33 PM

John-Paul said:

This is all good and well but... I already bought a dang Xbox 360.

# March 28, 2007 1:52 PM

Quarem said:

Microsoft is milking us on add-on prices for the 360. The hard-disks, memory units, and wireless adapter are overpriced. Do not even get me started on the marketplace pricing for themes and gamer pictures. I understand that Microsoft wants to make a profit on this stuff, but this is really pushing the limits of what is reasonable especially when we are locked into buying official hard disks for the 360. I cannot wait for the PS3 to come down in price to put some pressure on MS to drop the prices of the 360 gear. The Elite is sure sweet. When it drops in price I'll look at replacing my existing 360 with one. Especially if the video marketplace comes to Canada, and there is a reasonable way to transfer the license for Arcade games from one 360 to another.
# March 28, 2007 2:00 PM

Momo Hemo said:

I had a question that I doubt few people except you, Ozymandias could answer. Are these ones going to primarily have the BenQ drives or are they going to be a mix of all three? The reason I ask is I never turn off my xbox (it's been on since July 8th) and my disc drive's noise is getting worse and worse and it's having harder times reading games so I'm looking for something different. Not to  mention the BenQ drive is supposed to be a lot quieter. :)

# March 28, 2007 2:52 PM

zs450 said:

I've been debating if I want to buy the new SKU or not. One one hand, I download every demo and XBLA game released. I have downloaded a couple of TV shows and a movie, and it would be cool to not have to worry about space like I do right now. On the other hand, if HDMI is not a big upgrade and I just keep cleaning up my drive like I have been for nearly 1.5 years, do I really want to spend the money?

Here's how I see it in the end. If I buy the new SKU, I'll transfer all of my data to the new drive, sell the old Premium for about $300, and then I'm only losing the cost of the 120GB HDD anyway....I think I'll go ahead and buy the Elite.

# March 28, 2007 3:37 PM

Xwar said:

HDMI? To me, the best advantage for the 360 visually is the first party VGA cable, which the PS3 doesn't have (and might never have). Who needs a 360 browser when I can play games on my shared 360/PC monitor, and surf the 'net on my dedicated Internet box on my second monitor? :-)

By the way, how would migrating to a new HD work? Wouldn't you need to move everything save/XBLA game/profile to a memory card and then back into the new HD?

If so, would we then be forced to be logged on Live every time we want to play XBLA games? Having just spent 5 hours on Symphony of the Night on the day of Live downtime that would really really bother me...

And what about all those saves I hear about being non-transferrable? (Something that should be Microsoft policy to prohibit utterly, by the way.)

# March 28, 2007 3:48 PM

Ozymandias said:

RE: "I had a question that I doubt few people except you, Ozymandias could answer. Are these ones going to primarily have the BenQ drives or are they going to be a mix of all three? The reason I ask is I never turn off my xbox (it's been on since July 8th) and my disc drive's noise is getting worse and worse and it's having harder times reading games so I'm looking for something different. Not to  mention the BenQ drive is supposed to be a lot quieter. :)"

I honestly don't know. There's always ongoing cost-reduction work happening and I don't know what's happening with the drive. Sorry!

# March 28, 2007 3:48 PM

Chris said:

HDMI isn't just video quality, audio can be a huge win compared to RCA cables.

# March 28, 2007 4:04 PM

Shadowstorm said:

$170 is insane for a HDD.

# March 28, 2007 4:12 PM

zs450 said:

"HDMI isn't just video quality, audio can be a huge win compared to RCA cables."

That is very true, but, many people who are going to consider the upgrade to HDMI are likely running optical audio already and there isn't that huge of a difference between optical and HDMI for audio. I don't remember the specifics (it's been a while) but most consumers won't be able to tell the difference.

Some argue that HDMI offers a higher bitrate and, because of that, is capable of higher quality sound, however, the question would be: Can the Xbox 360 output at a noticeably higher quality? I'm not an expert....just a geek that did some reading a couple of years ago.

# March 28, 2007 4:22 PM

10 said:

Hi,

That's a great news, congratulation..:).

Now oz,my questions for you is: Any chance we get the HD movie download feature in Canada??? I really enjoy the Southpark episode...Now, I'm hooked and I'm ready to give you my money for more hd movie...:)

# March 28, 2007 4:55 PM

zs450 said:

BTW, Ozzy...I thought when Scoob left, all was lost. Thanks for the outstanding site, I'm glad that I was wrong!

# March 28, 2007 5:13 PM

Cowdisease said:

I'm very disappointed that Microsoft decided to sell the 120 GB Hard drive for $180.00. That is more than twice the cost of a standard 120 GB drive that you can find at Newegg. I'm sorry, Ozy, but Microsoft is clearly price gouging with this accessory. While it fits the pattern of other overpriced 360 accessories (wireless adapter, memory cards), the $180 price tag is absolutely ridiculous, even by Microsoft standards. If you check the online scene, you'll see a lot of people have balked at this price, and it seems very likely that it will not sell well once it hits retail. A fairer price for the accessory? $100.00. Granted this means lowering the price of the 20 GB hard drive and the memory cards, but I believe that's a price point that can compel even the stingiest 360 user to upgrade their hard drive. I guess it'll take the free market to let Microsoft know that the cost is too high.
# March 28, 2007 6:08 PM

JohnCz said:

Overall I'm impressed.  I would like to know about Elite...

- Does it support HDCP over HDMI?

- Has 100Mbps Ethernet been upgraded to 1Gbps?

# March 28, 2007 10:13 PM

drunk pandas said:

I'm also wondering about the HDMI with audio issues. I will definitely buy the new SKU if the 360 will output 5.1 uncompressed PCM audio from HD-DVD. This is a major selling point on the PS3 for me. I'd also love to know what version of HDMI the 360 supports. I would hope 1.3 since that's the current standard.

I'm not too concerned visually, component for 1080p fine. VGA doesn't work well with my TV, so I'm forced to see HD-DVD's in 1080i upconverted by my HDTV.

# March 29, 2007 5:53 AM

Aedrin said:

"At least my statements can be backed by full sweets of tests, scientific measurements as compared to specifications and a complete compatibility list by simply going to the avsforum.com and checking out the threads related to the Xbox 360's issues on 1080p sets in 1080p mode."

There are people like this in the camera field too. They will spend days doing tests to find that one off pixel, that little blur or dark spot in the corner.

I can't imagine how you would ever feel proud over finding something that no one will ever notice.

Just plug it in and enjoy it.

If you want to know (not see) that you get perfect quality, then you're just going to have to invest thousands of dollars into a high class PC.

This is a console. Not a "scientific" device.

# March 29, 2007 7:21 AM

Frank Rizzo said:

Re: "Here's how I see it in the end. If I buy the new SKU, I'll transfer all of my data to the new drive, sell the old Premium for about $300, and then I'm only losing the cost of the 120GB HDD anyway....I think I'll go ahead and buy the Elite."

It might be a bit difficult to sell a used 360 Premium at $300 as I would imagine the market will be flooded with people like you trying to upgrade.

# March 29, 2007 8:01 AM

Dave H said:

So, with the new uber drive, will we finally be able to do a season pass for a TV show (SouthPark, Battlestar, etc...)???

Dave

# March 29, 2007 8:17 AM

... said:

why would i buy console that is elite at failing and making noise levels @ 10000000000000000 decibels???

until they fix

- Rings of death issues

- noise level issues

- crap *** dpad issues

no way i am jumping back. PS3 for me.

# March 29, 2007 8:28 AM

tostada said:

I can only hope that the addition of HDMI doesn't signal that we're going to see "content flag" rear its ugly head. I can envision a time in the near future where certain high-def content will only be available in full resolution to the Elite owners, and at a reduced resolution to the existing 360's.

I also predict a class-action suit against MS for deceiving original purchasers who bought in to MS's stance that there was no need/value to having HDMI in the original 360's. Now they've reversed course, added HDMI, and left early-adopters with a potentially obsoleted console.

Boo to Microsoft...

# March 29, 2007 8:30 AM

360 tag: JJS UK said:

My assessment of the Elite 360 is little innovation or Elite status upgrades to sku. I was expecting a 65mm core with news on a better fan eg Whisper fan plus installing a quieter dvd drive. Instead all we got was HDMI, black colour and a 120GB.. yawn plus $80 more expensive for a year and a half tech(taking the pee..)

It's a fact the different dvd drives gives off different level of noise. I'm lucky I have the Samsung Toshiba but I do feel sorry for any Hitachi 360 owners.

So to summarise I was expecting to buy the Elite but I won't be for the reasons listed above. I also think it's def a bit cheeky listing the Elite for $80 more considering it's a year and half old tech.

My plan for the my 360 in future is to wait for the 65mm models with hopeful a HDMI port.. ideally on a CORE package!! :O)

# March 29, 2007 9:06 AM

sportsunit said:

Microsoft's biggest problem this gen is the three rings of death.  People will never get over this, and this will probably lead to a hard time selling a 3rd SKU.  In addition to the failure rates, people are going to be hesistant to purchase an even more expensive console.  I thought this was the point in the life cycle of a console where prices go down.  MS is taking a new route and it remains to be seen if this strategy will pay off in the long run.

# March 29, 2007 9:11 AM

logikil said:

tostada: I wouldn't worry about resolution constraints on anything but HDDVD potentially. It's unlikely you will see this on downloadable content. As for HDDVD, i doubt they will turn on HDCP for some time to come. Perhaps a few years down the line when HDMI becomes more prevalent. In any event, i wouldn't worry too much about this type of copy protection being included in downloads. And never on games. Oh and Ozy, I listened to the podcast with Albert and Larry. Frankly, I dont know that I buy the reasons they are stating for why they couldn't just allow you to use an empty cage and insert your own drive. If it's a matter of drive statistics, then just specify that you need to be using a drive that falls within a specific spec. If it's an issue with ensuring that there are certain protections on the disk itself, why couldn't they have just included software to ensure that the drive was formatted with the file system and security that they require the drive to have? It just doesn't make sense to me that with the OS experience that MS has they couldn't have done this. I expect people would have waited longer to have you perfect this. Instead MS comes off as just wanting to money grab even further from it's customers. I've been a fervent supporter of the Xbox systems. I own 60+ games for V1 and over 20 games already for the 360. I'm not one who complains about the cost of Live either. I believe you get what you pay for and Sony will not be able to offer up the experience that XBL offers at least for a few years. But even this seems pretty crappy to me. Also, you all really need to work on the transfer capabilities to the new drive. I mean not only are you now sticking people with a first party drive that costs way more then it should (as a hardware guy you can't really tell me you would pay $180 for an equivalent PC drive) but on top of that now you don't give a really easy way for people to transfer multiple harddrives worth of data to the drive. I mean after telling people to buy multiple 20GB drives you guys didn't consider the fact that people would do this in your transfer process? It just seems to me that as a section of your company, the Xbox division does a great job at listening to some things that customer say and just spacing on others.
# March 29, 2007 9:13 AM

Ozymandias said:

Re: "Ozy, you mentioned that the HDMI's only benefit for you would be for switching between your systems. But, doesn't it upscale standard DVDs to 1080i when you use the HDMI cable, like the VGA cable does?"

Yes, true. Sorry, I forgot to mention that.

# March 29, 2007 9:14 AM

Ozymandias said:

Re: "Now oz,my questions for you is: Any chance we get the HD movie download feature in Canada??? I really enjoy the Southpark episode...Now, I'm hooked and I'm ready to give you my money for more hd movie...:)"

I know there's certainly interest in making content available more broadly. I can't comment more than that, nor make promises, but know that people have definitely heard and understand the desire!

# March 29, 2007 9:16 AM

ringsOfDeath said:

>Microsoft's biggest problem this gen is the three rings of death.

Isn't that a problem that is mostly solved now...i.e. the first batch of 360's had the problem, but the newer ones don't.

Also, some perspective is needed: avg joe consumer has no clue what the rings of death are, or were. it's a non-issue.

I don't know why people would be upset about a new SKU - makes no sense to me. You knew it would happen eventually. From day one MS pointed out how flexible the 360 was, how they'd make it grow, etc.

For me, having the latest/greatest would be cool, black is nice, HDMI is nice however I don't really need the thing. I still have plenty space on my 20GB drive even.

End of the day, the core, premium and elite 360's all play the same games, at the same quality... so why ***? People were bitching when a bigger drive wasn't available, and now that one will be people are still bitching.

# March 29, 2007 9:44 AM

Goukas said:

Reading that there won't be a suitable HDMI option for us early adopters, I'm wondering if Microsoft will offer some sort of "good faith" trade in program so that we aren't stuck paying another $480.

Any chance of that happening Oz?

# March 29, 2007 10:53 AM

whitesanjuro said:

i would like to chime in with the others who are asking about HDMI and LPCM or other HD audio streams.  no one in authority from MS has mentioned anything about this and its really very important.  thanks!

# March 29, 2007 11:49 AM

vittala said:

What I find a little insulting though, is how in the past when MS was asked about HDMI, they said they were not supporting it because of lack of demand and seemed to imply they could if they wanted... now we get a story about how they didnt support it because the tech specs were not finalized and told they can not offer hdmi as an add on option... they could of said that from the get go.

IMO, M$ should of replaced the premium SKU with the Elite and offered it at the same price as the premium.

Oh well, I will be sticking with my current 360 and when I get the extra cash pick up a Wii. Like so many others say the Elite doesnt offer much to make it an "Elite" box or merit spending more money. I may get a hard drive if/when IPTV comes out and depending on how the IPTV turns out.

# March 29, 2007 1:03 PM

colin said:

Blimey, the Elite's only been announced 5seconds and everyone's piling in on the 'doesn't offer much' bandwagon. Personally I think it could be good, but I'm worried if we get to Elite-only content ala Live Gold (can't see how it could, but you can't beat being paranoid!).

Us Brits of course aint gonna get a chance to get one till later in the year, by which team hopefully it'll be clearer whether it'll be worth it or not. I think IPTV is the future, and Apple(TV) should be starting to feel a little worried now.

MS definately on a roll these days tho. We had the PS3 launch over here last week, and it generated such a laughable buzz (did they advertise? never saw any!) that many people I know realise that 360 is the viable option for at least the next few years; I read this the other day that they even have God on their side! ...

http://blog.teamsumpter.com/2007/03/god-wants-me-to-buy-xbox360.html

# March 29, 2007 1:12 PM

Maynard said:

I agree that this is a bad move by MS.  It's leaving 10 million early adopters out in the cold and making them look stupid for flip-flopping on the whole "who needs HDMI" subject.

Not to mention that $180 for a 120gb HDD is a complete rip-off.  Will they at least lower the 20gb model to a more reasonable price now?  And have you heard of the disadvantages of transferring data from the 20gb model to the 120gb model?  It's almost not even worth it at all.  If the 360 is so flexible, stop making it so I can only use your damn proprietary equipment to do standard stuff... especially when the cost of that equipment leaves me with a horrible taste in my mouth.

Thanks for taking Sony's lead in trying to bend me over the highway railing during rush hour for everyone to see, MS.

# March 29, 2007 2:24 PM

Stylenation said:

The PS3 was released two weeks ago here in cold Europe and what the media wrote about and what people talk about is that the PS3 is THE consol were you watch the next dvd format and full HD and that the games are also HD. That's the big selling point. And polls says that as soon as the price drops a bit people will buy a PS3. The thing is that people don't know that the 360 is highdef, but they do know the about the online service and the software. And MS still got the biggest ace left, Halo. Software will be the key for MS this christmas. No doubt.

# March 30, 2007 7:42 AM

SpotAnime said:

I think the idea of the Elite SKU is a good one, but the execution has a lot left to be desired. First, the price. $479 for what is essentially a larger hard drive and HDMI. For those who say HDMI is better because it's pure digital, I think it's a matter of opinion. VGA and component look as good, and the difference is negligible. And the larger hard drive is much welcomed, but at a premium? These should have just replaced the Premium SKU price, and dropped the price of, or eliminated, the others. What else do we get with the Elite? Not the smaller, cooler chips. Which tells me the failure rate might be just as high as the current models. Which tells me I should just wait until the inevitable Elite price drop to $400, where it should have been all along, when those chips are included. I think the $179 price for the 120GB HD is insane. I know there is some proprietary casing, but the drive itself is nothing more than a PCMCIA HD, and retail those go for a third of what MS is charging. Now, early adopters always get screwed, it's just something we live with. But as with the old saying, "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."
# March 30, 2007 8:02 AM

chrys said:

Again I think half the people are missing the point here. If you do not own a separate upscaling DVD player, the XBOX COULD have been the solution with HDMI. I have a premium and am using component outputs since my Samsung HD does not match up correctly colorwise with VGA. I can't upscale dvds with this setup, but I could with an HDMI output.

If they want to be able to challenge PS3 on the media center front, they need to solve the upscaling issue for those of us without separate dvd players.

# March 30, 2007 11:32 AM

KalEl770 said:

$179 for HDD is robbery.  The price should be adjusted down to $129.  Where's the loyalty to those of already have purchased the 30 and numerous periphals?  I know you guys want to make money, but give me a break, I can get a Wii for $250 the HDD should cost no more than a DS.

# March 30, 2007 2:45 PM

Brian Alexander said:

Stilllllll waiting for some sort of confirmation about the HDMI LPCM issue....

# March 30, 2007 3:27 PM

Lorul2 said:

Mr. Oz if you have addressed this questions I  apologise but I am very curious.

 I understand you may not have any "control" over how the 360 is designed, and marketed to the masses.  However it is begining to seem like Microsoft has abandoned HD DVD and is taking a more wait and see approach to the "High Def. DVD war".  I like MANY others "thought"...ok they have said over and over there will be no games on HD DVD only high def playback!  Fine!  Building an internal HD DVD drive into a 3RD sku(black of course) however, WOULD BE THE NEXT LOGICAL STEP.  If I were in a high position at Toshiba I could live with NO HD DVD GAMES as long as there was a HD DVD Trojan horse disguised as a 360.  How can I possible stay competitive with Blu ray if I don't get my Drive into a 360 SKU?  The last couple of days has certainly given the impression that Microsoft has abandoned the HD DVD format and despite PS3's "slow sales", Blu Ray will win the war by default.  

How do you feel about the statement Microsoft has abandoned HD DVD?

What do you think of Blu Rays future in PS3 compared to HD DVD's future as an Add on?

If in the future all three Sku's may have the same motherboard with HDMI, is the elite's only purpose a larger HD on entry, and a color change?  

Thanks,

# March 30, 2007 4:25 PM

HDDVD_Drive? said:

Why would you want the Elite to have an HD-DVD drive? I'm not 100%, I'm just guessing, but I bet the HD-DVD drives are overall slower than the current 12X DVD in the 360...

so, unless you crave longer load times, I'm sure this is why they won't put in a slower HD-DVD drive to replace the 12X DVD

# March 30, 2007 4:57 PM

Lorul2 said:

Yes, I believe a HD-DVD drive is only capable of 8X -DVD right now.  Current 360 drives are 12X - DVD, so yes it would increase your load time.  A hard drive would help, but the point give me the choice!  As a consumer I would like the choice.

# March 30, 2007 6:48 PM

fahrenheit said:

They are introducing HDCP into the product line, how soon before it enters the content chain? Alarm bells should be ringing.

When the number of HDMI equipped units outnumber the non-HDMI equipped units we could find ourselves out in the cold. Todays early adoptor is tomorrows castaway.

# March 30, 2007 8:15 PM

AGameDev said:

the point? the point is about giving the consumer a choice which will not hurt them in the long run. As a game dev, I can tell you we expect a console to be able to load at a given rate. If a faster drive comes out, that is fine. But a slow drive would break games that expect a minimum load time for it's data.

for example, a game that uses level streaming (like all the FPS games on the 360) will break if the drive is slower - i.e. the player will be able to move into an area that isn't loaded yet. causing all sorts of bad stuff...

MS isn't stupid - they have valid reasons for including, or not including, a given feature.

# March 30, 2007 8:18 PM

kevin said:

Wat the use if got HDMI but don't had HD-DVD or B-Ray disc on the games!?

Somemore can't tranfer old HDD data into the Elite system.

totally suck !

# March 31, 2007 1:41 AM

Tomeo said:

What version of hdmi has the 360 Elite ? Is it 1.3 or 1.2 ?

# March 31, 2007 2:54 AM

Lorul2 said:

for example, a game that uses level streaming (like all the FPS games on the 360) will break if the drive is slower - i.e. the player will be able to move into an area that isn't loaded yet. causing all sorts of bad stuff...

MS isn't stupid - they have valid reasons for including, or not including, a given feature.

Ok then. Say we can't include a HD DVD in any current model of the 360 because the drive is not fast enough.  Problem solved, confusion overted, questions answered...  What was Microsoft's approach?

# March 31, 2007 6:16 AM

Trellium said:

There is also that 3xDVD system, which is a 15GB (per side) DVD that is red laser but read in a HD DVD drive. What I want to know is if there would be any chance of that becoming part of the DVD drive itself since it doesn't require Blue laser technology.

DVD could use an upgrade again, and if it were to be 3xDVD then there would be more space and its still compatible with the HD DVD drives (but not bluray).

# March 31, 2007 8:37 AM

Justin said:

What's with the price on the hard drive? I could get a Seagate 500GB SATA hard drive for 40$ less than what you are charging for the Xbox 360 drive. I'm looking at 250 gig HDs right now on NewEgg and some of them are 70$.

So you're taking advantage of the fact that most of your consumers don't know squat about computer hardware by overpricing your peripherals. I'm a little disgusted. It won't be long before the mod scene finds a surefire way to get other hard drives working.

Now after bashing HDMI and 1080p you release a redesigned box that throws in these features in their entirety 0_o. Don't get me wrong, I love the Xbox 360 and have been a fan since the original Xbox, but I don't understand why you would do such a thing now and not from the start.

# March 31, 2007 9:57 AM

Sr Mix Alot said:

No problems

but think on consider this:

no hdmi for us? maybe coulda be a nice idea start thinking on DVI cable, just looks like the vga cable that already we use. We will able to have digital video output with dvi cable and audio one is just the same optical connector we have on vga cable.

of course, native resolutions for many monitors would be great with dvi cable

# March 31, 2007 1:53 PM

....... said:

Xbox 360 Elite supports HDMI 1.2 profile. For audio, you can select DD, DTS (at 1.5 Mbps), and WMA-Pro (Microsoft high fidelity multi-channel codec supported in some AVRs such as Pioneer). Since it is not based on 1.3, it will not support output of DD+ or TrueHD (even if it did, mixing would have been turned off).

PCM output is available but only for 2-channels (not 5.1).

# March 31, 2007 8:07 PM

Taomyn said:

Re: Unfortunately there will not be an HDMI adapter released for the original 360.......

Errmm....if conversion boxes exist to do this,http://www.cypuk.com/cyp_techpage.php?product=109&&parent=0 , then why can't MS put the necessary circuitry into the cable itself? There must already be some for the TOS link.

# April 4, 2007 3:18 AM