Quantcast [Edit] Sony Sizes Up Xbox Live - Ozymandias

[Edit] Sony Sizes Up Xbox Live

It's been a while since I've written about Sony... mostly because there hasn't been anything really of interest to write about. The corporate puppy has been thoroughly kicked, and it appears the consumer message is finally getting through.

Next-gen just put up an interview with Eric Lempel, the Director of Playstation Network operations. Lots of interesting quotes in here. They're not terribly surprising (at least to those who have been reading this blog for a while), but interesting nonetheless.

“Microsoft had a year jump on us for the launch and essentially we’re offering a lot of the same stuff. I don’t think there’s a big difference in exactly what we’re offering when it comes down to the nuts and bolts of what’s actually there for the consumer… We’re not charging money for our service. That’s a key differentiating factor.”

Obviously I'd disagree here. Right now Sony is trying to follow a "checkbox strategy." If you looked at a list of network features side-by-side, it's quite obvious Sony is trying to go down the list and check off missing items. Friends list? Check. Presence? Check. Online Marketplace? Check. What's not said here is that there's no integration among those features... I wrote about this a long time ago, but simply put, the online network wasn't even being designed when the console came together and there are fundamental holes in the experience that are either very difficult or impossible to fix.

More interesting is that you're beginning to see the cracks in the "free is better" mantra we've been hearing for the past five years. Believe me, I get that free is good... but you've all seen that you get what you pay for when it comes to an online service. As Next-gen says, however:

...that could be open to change in the future.

“Right now that’s our model. In time anything can change but right now we’re happy with it.”

I've got to swing over to NeoGAF later and see the tizzy that's spun up from this. The reality shoe is finally dropping. Wink

[Edit: added a link to the NeoGAF forum post - it's already started.]

There's also a quote highlighting the, shall we say, "inspired emulation" of Xbox Live features:

Lempel did concede that Sony was working to replicate a number of Xbox Live’s most successful features including cross-game invites, the ability to access the cross-media bar in-game, and an achievements system.

“I like how their marketplace is integrated directly into their user interface….Talking across games is fantastic. That definitely builds momentum for games and actually migrate users to other games and keeps you in touch with your gaming community.

Again, due to the lack of planning and huge amounts of memory the system UI takes, much of what he's talking about will be difficult to impossible to do well on the PS3. But it's good to hear some steps will be taken in this direction, and it lays the groundwork for a better online framework next generation. I'm not kidding when I say I really want the PS3 experience to be better. I'm a gamer, too, and I know there will be some first-party games out of Sony that I can only play on the PS3... and I'd like to not suffer while doing so. More importantly, you can never understate the importance of competition to driving this industry forward.

Finally, an Achievements clone is coming... most of folks here have known the likelihood of this for a long time, but it's good to hear a commitment:

“We’re working on an achievements system... I can’t say if it’s definitely tied to a gamerscore or something like Xbox does but that is an important feature.

I'll be curious to see if there's any innovation here. Not a snide remark, just honestly curious if there will be more than a "here's a 3D trophy instead of a bitmap" achievement. Time will tell!

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Comments

360 tag: JJS UK said:

I must admit I wasn't really into the idea of LIVE until I started playing on LIVE and now I fully appreciate it. LIVE is very fluid experience. I definately don't mind playing for a quality service, which is what MS are currently providing. Things I'd like to see on LIVE are:- 1. Clan system 2. More ability to shape/design your system blades.. for example imagine having the tools of Forza 2 to create blades! Then to promote creativity and community, designs could be submitted to MS for approve and then become avaiable for download. Sounds amazing to me. MS could levy for a SMALL FEE for such. 3. More ability to shape your interface with LIVE. 4. Longer Voice messages 5. When you receive an message ability to instantly see eg Y button. Aloter faster and sleek, nice option. 6. Feeds from Game sites(steaming maybe) giving reviews on games/movies/gear(eg HDTV's , 5.1 systems etc 7. More depth to Gamer card and Rep. Currently REP only reports negatives eg trash talking.. what about 'Great teamplayer.. Good coms.. Good skill.. Great Skill'. I think alot of 360 owners would love this. 8. More info on quality of connection to various host. This sounds easy since it's a ping and just giving the info to the users. The benefit is 360 owners can then choose which host they prefer on said data if they CHOOSE so. 9. Dedicated servers for specific games to reduce lag. These are the my main ideas to improve LIVE from my experience. 3.
# June 18, 2007 10:21 AM

Matt said:

Very good points.  It seems kinda sad that the company behind one of the most successful MMORPGs out there has been beholden to the XBox/XBox 360's online presence for years now (including the pitiful PS2 online experience.)  

I sincerely hope that Sony does fix their horrible online presence, because competition is what makes this and other industries better--and right now, next-gen gaming is a one-horse race.

# June 18, 2007 11:30 AM

Trellium said:

Sony's problems are deeper than you said. They need to build a common interface onto as system which they specifically said (when the PS3 came out) was set so that each developer made their own rules and systems. So, they are retrofitting critical functionality. I like it when engineers do that with roadwork too. Sony should have had the game plan in place from the start. There is more cohesion to the entirety of the 360 online offerings, and it was there from the start so developers and customers alike trust the system and know that basic functions are implemented in a common way across games. Foresight has advantages, hindsight is 20/20. Lets see if Sony sees any better now with their new bifocals.
# June 18, 2007 12:24 PM

Jason said:

Great points!

In a somewhat off-topic related story, what do you think of the recent announcement by Blockbuster that they are now expanding their BluRay only rental locations from 250 to 1700 (and not HDDVD) due to "consumer demands"?  I cant recall where, but I swore that Blockbuster had some form of relationship wtih Sony.  This coupled with the fact that it took over 6 months for my local Blockbuster to start renting 360 games, yet they had PS3 games on launch day (which such a horrible launch of the PS3, that doesnt seem mathmatically to make sense).

Great blog!!

# June 18, 2007 12:51 PM

Quarem said:

Good points. What I was also interested in was how Sony is handling the user-generated content issue compared to Microsoft. We, the gamers, want to be able to make maps for popular games on our PCs and play them on our consoles. A Halo 3 map-editor on PC that could transfer maps to Halo 3 on my 360 would be a dream come true. The attention that such a editor would get would be unprecedented, and the number of good maps coming out of the community would be enough to keep Halo 3 fresh for years to come. Microsoft needs to do this. It seems like Sony recognizes this and is willing to allow it, while Microsoft is extremely hesitant (which the previous bonus round video with Aaron Greenberg). If Sony does create this functionality, it alone would be enough for me to purchase a PS3 to play FPS games on.
# June 18, 2007 1:00 PM

InformationHigh said:

To be fair I like the concept of home and the trophies. I like home, my first impression was it's going to fall into the myspace pit of despair or end up like The Sims Online. I've since warmed up to it though. I think it goes one step further than just "Here's a motto and a set picture". I kind of see it as a 3D dashboard and gamerprofile. Just seeing the videos where they just walk around and video/movie previews are streaming was great. Instead of paying money for themes and and bitmaps (:P), you can get clothes or furniture/wallpapers to show off your love for a particular game/movie/etc. inside your own space. You can show off trophies for special achievements in a game. A 3D representation of an achievement could be much cooler than just an image and gamerscore. Some people don't care TOO much about gamerscore, but do enjoy the challenges in doing something quirky or extraordinary in a game and getting some sort of offical proof of it. That's part of the appeal (in my opinion) of the achievements. Which I assume at the very least they're planning to match with the trophies. That being said, all of this means beans compared to a lack of a unified presence system for games. I didn't pay $600+ for a fancy Virtual Laguna Beach. However, Home is something I think they're really expanding on for the better and in that aspect I believe they'll have nicer services. I did like that they're dedicated on having user created content. It's something that's sorely lacking on console games and would really help with the replayability of them. For those that want to see the whole interview: http://www.gametrailers.com/bonusround.php?ep=6&pt=2
# June 18, 2007 1:25 PM

The Hedon said:

Well, stand alone HD-DVD sales take up 60% of all HD player sales (exceeding BR).

The reason for the uptake on this from Blockbuster is because of all the free BR players given out by Sony for every PS3 purchased.

People spent $600 on a inferior game machine, so they are spending their hard earned cash on BR movies since there are no games.

# June 18, 2007 1:38 PM

Epsilon said:

I think that Xbox Live is probably the main reason that I've been an Xbox supporter since 2002. Rainbow Six 3 was the game that got me hooked on the online experience and I haven't lost the bug since. So I guess one of the biggest reasons for holding off on purchasing the PS3 is the pretty lame online experience overall. While feature vs. feature, the PS3 seems close to the 360, the major separating factor is the pretty lackluster implementation of everything, all of which has been talked about for a long time. I guess if they shore up a very basic unification of all of their systems and release a few really worthwhile online titles I'll look at it. But as of right now the PS3, in my mind, is still very much leaning towards a single player console.
# June 18, 2007 1:45 PM

Ozymandias said:

It's disappointing to see Blockbuster pick sides this early, especially since a lot of the Blu-ray demand could well be from some of the exclusive content that was available during the last month. But that said, at some point we need to land on a single format. It's better we get there sooner rather than later, whichever format ends up "winning".

# June 18, 2007 1:46 PM

Opathoris said:

It's kind of surprising Blockbuster would have announced that, especially after the reports of Blu-Ray discs already rotting and being unreadable.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=857067

How widespread will disc rot be for Blu-Ray in 6 months, a year?

# June 18, 2007 3:01 PM

Shawn Oster said:

I'd like to see Sony get its online act together because I think some healthy competition can only benefit the consumers. While some people like to get caught up in "we had it first, they had it first" style arguments the reality is that the good ideas tend to bubble to the top, the whole "standing on the shoulder's of giants" bit. Perhaps Sony will take a Live concept and improve it in someway, and then Microsoft will turn around and polish it up some more, etc. It will be interesting to see how long they can maintain a free network if they ever achive XBox Live feature and stability parity. All that content and connectivity has to cost in terms of hardware and support and that money has to come from somewhere.
# June 18, 2007 3:08 PM

JohnCz said:

Oz, how can you seriously believe that Microsoft & Consumers stand to be benefit from either format winning..sooner rather than later? Wouldn't a HD DVD marketshare win or a drawn out format war benefit Microsoft or XBox customers like me who have a HD DVD drive? Also, I would think that the format war becomes less relevent for every 6 months that goes by...thus giving download services more time to build a customer base. Thats why I have been promoting you drop XBox prices to gain marketshare...in what probably is best opportunity during this format war uncertainity.
# June 18, 2007 3:08 PM

Trellium said:

Comments still going missing. :)

# June 18, 2007 3:26 PM

Jason Cross said:

I wonder if Microsoft has any patents on the Achievements system or Gamerscore that would make it especially hard to (legally) copy in any meaningful way?

Getting 3D trophies to show off in Home is nice and all, but that doesn't translate into a set "score" for my online username.

Even if they manage to work out cross-game invites and a compelling achievements-like system, these are things that need to be worked out before your system goes on sale. It's not like existing games that push the memory limit are going to be able to be patched to include cross-game invites, cross-game voice chat, or achievement-like things. I mean, if they don't have the specs and requirements for these things nailed down and in the hands of developers right now, there's no chance a game like, say, GTA IV is going to have them. And patching it in later becomes a matter of "well what kind of memory/CPU resources do we have left?"

# June 18, 2007 3:34 PM

Ozymandias said:

Sorry guys - the spam filter seemed to be overly aggressive on this topic (I haven't changed it). However, I just approved each and every comment, so if you wrote and submitted something it should be here.

# June 18, 2007 3:35 PM

Ozymandias said:

Re: "How widespread will disc rot be for Blu-Ray in 6 months, a year?"

Honestly, I don't think this is a real issue. Most disc formats have manufacturing issues on the occasional run, and I'd be very surprised if this "Blu-ray rot" was anything more than that.

# June 18, 2007 3:36 PM

Shawn Oster said:

I'm curious if Sony will offer Achievements retrograde for games that are pre-Home? I ask because the whole achievement point system really only carries weight if *every* game has achievements, if everyone has an opportunity to earn regardless of the games they play. If the first 10 games to have achievements are RPG's but you prefer FPS or sports games, then you're going to be pretty ticked that someone has 5000 more points than you simply because the games they like are Home enabled. Part of the fun of Achievements is bragging rights but they lose a lot if they're not on an even playing field.
# June 18, 2007 3:46 PM

Porktree said:

Live is good, it's the de facto standard for successful online gaming. Sony blew it, they will not be able to mirror live in this generation. But it has nothing to do with the whole free vs pay thing, it's all about the short sighted hardware restrictions a self imposed shot in the foot. But to go down the free vs pay argument - the more micro transactions live has, the more it needs to move towards free. The mall doesn't charge an admission fee, no matter how much fun it is. The whole gears fiasco (with the maps, and Larry H's stupid comments on his podcast) left me thinking that it's to bad there's not a decent rival for live (Sony isn't it).
# June 18, 2007 7:42 PM

Ozymandias said:

Re: "I'm curious if Sony will offer Achievements retrograde for games that are pre-Home?" Not going to happen, I fear. Most of the early games weren't even online-enabled, and even those that are had to roll their update code themselves (see Motorstorm for an example). There's no way to update all of those titles short of some sort of recall or swap program, and that'll never happen. So yes, you're correct... even if some Achievements system is put into place, it will be weakened by not being across every title. Another example of not planning ahead.
# June 18, 2007 11:09 PM

Robin said:

The key thing about an online gaming service is that you can play games online over it. Friends lists, 'achievements' and other 'value added' features are nice, but they're not something people decry if they're not there, and certainly not something they'll go out of their way to pay extra for, unless forced to as the only way to access online gaming on a platform (as the perpetual floundering* of Xbox Live Gold userbase shows).

This is something MS are learning the hard way with 'Games for Windows Live', and will have reiterated in the console space once more online efforts for the PS3 and Wii arrive.

*the only assumption we can make considering MS continue to refuse to publish figures.

# June 19, 2007 6:15 AM

Dearest Copernicus said:

Early morning update for a change (translation: my sleep cycle is out of whack) IGA Worldwide have partnered up with the BASES division of Nielsen Research to study the effectiveness of in-game advertising, in an effort to support opportunities in...

# June 19, 2007 7:06 AM

Skylar said:

@ Ozy

"Another example of not planning ahead."

I don't mean do get off topic? but not planning ahead thats some MS FAILS AT... why didn't they plan ahead by by adding better Heat sinks in every console.. instead of waiting until all these Failures? let me guess "its a moving target right"?.. you have dozens of people on there 3rd and 4th console.. scared to turn the thing on.... what good is all these Live features if your console doesen't even function right? and i hear y'all are running out of coffins in some parts of the globe... making people provide there own box?

# June 19, 2007 8:59 AM

ha! said:

they can't even get the basics right

- console scratches discs EVEN WHEN YOU DON'T MOVE the console and the console is straight

- Ring of Death. says it all. Xbox 360 = Xbox 1.5 for 360 days

- Dpad - doesn't even presses butttons 100% correctly

sort yourselves out M$ before slating others.

# June 19, 2007 9:23 AM

Aedrin said:

"why didn't they plan ahead by by adding better Heat sinks in every console.. "

You make it sound like technical designers can foresee all technical problems. ;)

# June 19, 2007 9:25 AM

rothbart said:

Why do I even bother looking at this blog.  I could've guessed how things were going over here without even visiting.

This BLOG takes a checkbox approach.  Take everything good AND bad that Sony does, make a list of it and spin, spin, sping until we look better.  I can't believe people accuse SONY of being the arrogant ones...  the word is "class", look it up Ozzy.  Clearly you're unfamiliar.

*leaves to shower the residual smarminess off*

# June 19, 2007 11:10 AM

BackScatter said:

@rothbart

Wow.  Harsh.

# June 19, 2007 4:44 PM

Imaginedbug said:

Let's just wait and see what happens. I'd much rather get free online play with some semi-functional features than paying for a full-featured service that I don't use because there aren't any games I want to play for months in a row.

Shame the PS3 costs so much, otherwise I'd have bought one, now it's the choice between a new computer or a PS3, and the PS3 won't ever win that.

# June 20, 2007 2:45 AM

Xwar said:

Looks like *someone* is bitter at having plunked $600 for what currently amounts to a doorstop.

# June 20, 2007 2:51 AM

BackScatter said:

@Xwar

Console wars aside, I find the irony of calling out Ozy for a lack of "class" entertaining given that post is clearly the only one here which lacks any.

Have something to add? A different option based on different viewpoints?  Share them!  That's why we're all here. Why do these blogs\forums always have to be so full of obnoxious fanboyism and personal attacks though?

*Sigh*

# June 20, 2007 5:45 AM

Ozymandias said:

Yep, totally agree. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me in the slightest. But it's a lot more interesting when the reply is a counter-argument that's backed up with facts or reasonable supporting links.

At this point it's obvious the online infrastructure of the PS3 wasn't planned out ahead of time. If people disagree, I'd love it if people explained how or what on they base their assertion. Frankly, it often feels like some of the venting comes because there's little wiggle room to argue a counterpoint as the evidence is so overwhelming. But hey - maybe that's just me.

# June 20, 2007 10:15 AM

dozens said:

I'm suprised that more companies like Blockbuster haven't chosen sides already.

You guys may think it is too early, but how I see it, the longer this format-war goes on the more the consumer gets hurt.  if you really want a HD player you have to hope that you choose the right one, or else you're screwed.

If say Blu Ray wins out and becomes the standard and HD-DVD gets phased out, what about all those people who invested in a HD-DVD attachment for the 360?  Or early adopters who have a small library of HD-DVDs.

Sure they can still use what they have, but then they have to reinvest in another player for future purchases or uses.

Now probably is the best time.  Both formats have been out for awhile, one has a noticable advantage with a favorable trend.  Why waste time and money prolonging this fight.

Blockbuster might be hoping that their move will spark other big names out there and finally end this silly debate.

# June 20, 2007 11:29 AM

Trellium said:

Regarding Bluray and HD DVD -- the longer the war goes on, the more likely neither will fade out and you will simply see more movies available for both formats. That will last a year or two, and then overall disc sales for all three formats (DVD included) will decay as more people access more content online.

Then all the content owners will use that as clear proof that piracy continues to erode sales, while failing to mention that online sales are taking off.

People only need so much entertainment. Much entertainment is bought based on ease of access. rentals work fine, so does Netflix. Some purchases of content will continue, but it will decay as other options appear.

Right now, disc purchases is about the only option but as download sales/rentals become common the physical formats will be only for "must own" content; which to my mind is a very small portion of the whole. Most movies, once I saw them once, are never really watched again. Hardly worth buying a physical copy.

# June 20, 2007 11:55 AM

BackScatter said:

I noticed a fairly shocking breakdown of the PS3 system bloat over at InnerBits a few weeks ago - http://www.innerbits.com/blog/2007/05/09/ps3-memory-footprint/ I've noticed a few posts here on the same topic, but I guess I never stopped long enough to realize how skewed those numbers actually are. Wow! Interestingly, though, I've read reviews of Resistance: Fall of Man which mentions good performance during multiplayer matches of 30+ people. I have to wonder if this type of performance comes from an efficient service on the backend - Or running on the PS3 - provided by Sony (probably unlikely at this point in their development of the platform online) or if the developer shouldered all the effort on both sides to provide that experience. For the record, I don’t have a PS3 yet so I haven’t played it myself.
# June 20, 2007 7:04 PM

Robin said:

"At this point it's obvious the online infrastructure of the PS3 wasn't planned out ahead of time. If people disagree, I'd love it if people explained how or what on they base their assertion."

I don't think anyone reasonable does disagree with this observation, they just don't necessarily think it's as huge a deal as you're making it out to be.

Pretty much anything relating to the PS3 or Wii on an MS blog or interview takes the tone "oh maaan, don't get me wrong, I love the machine, but I hope they fix this *SAD SMILEY FACE*". The pattern's pretty obvious after the fiftieth time you see it.

# June 21, 2007 1:56 AM

Xwar said:

>The pattern's pretty obvious after the fiftieth time you see it.

That still does not detract from the validity of many of those criticisms.

# June 21, 2007 6:17 AM

Ozymandias said:

Re: "Pretty much anything relating to the PS3 or Wii on an MS blog or interview takes the tone "oh maaan, don't get me wrong, I love the machine, but I hope they fix this *SAD SMILEY FACE*". The pattern's pretty obvious after the fiftieth time you see it."

I suppose the alternative is to be less nice about it and just say "this sucks"? ;) The reason you see this sort of comment is because the folks in the games division at Microsoft really are gamers. We have the hallway arguments about the latest title, are either addicted to or avoid World of Warcraft like the plague (to avoid that addiction), and hit up the local EB Games almost daily. I rather suspect the comments of "MS folks" aren't any different than those of gamers at large.

# June 21, 2007 8:49 AM

Robin said:

Oz: I'm not really singling out MS folks, it's a pitfall of all corporate blogging. It's impossible (for the reader or the author) to disengage your opinions from the company discourse.

You're going to hang back on criticising things your friends made. You're going to make a bigger deal out of feature X that gives you some tangible difference from competitor Y, regardless of how it plays out in the real world, if that's all you hear about at lunch for months.

There's a climate, an unspoken consensus, at most companies that will colour your opinions on a subconscious level. Especially if you're going to write two posts in a row kicking Sony's tyres. ;)

# June 21, 2007 10:20 AM

Kotatsu Neko said:

One are where Sony really could surge ahead of Microsoft is with movie downloads. As everyone is aware the video market place is only available in one single country in the world, meaning for most people it's utterly useless. Sony own a studio and clearly have some strong industry connections, as can be see by their success with blu-ray. If they start pushing movie downloads internationally this will give them a clear edge, and hopefully for all us Xbox owners will give MS a much, much needed kick up the backside and encourage them to step up to the mark.
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