Quantcast [Edit] The Co-op Gaming Bill of Rights - Ozymandias

[Edit] The Co-op Gaming Bill of Rights

[Edit: have posted an updated Co-op Gaming Bill of Rights based on everyone's feedback here. Enjoy!]

Happened to read Penny Arcade today and was rather taken by a quote of Tycho's:

Army of Two is forward thinking in that your equipment and cash persist, no matter where you are playing or who you are playing with. Where it is less forward thinking is that you can't join a friend's game unless you have already beaten the level they have selected. In many games, but especially in co-op, people are going to be traveling through the game at their own pace, and players should be enabled in their efforts to play this cooperative game cooperatively however they like. It's as though we need to create a kind of Co-op Bill Of Rights, so delineate in clear terms what we consider bedrock in terms of functionality. In essence, we'd like the games to cooperate with us.

In particular I was particularly stuck by the comment about defining what a gamer considers bedrock functionality for co-op gaming. This sort of thinking is very similar to some of the thinking we do with the industry around platform features, and it got my co-worker Krotus and I chatting about what features might be considered as being the basic "bar" for a co-op title. The industry has come a long way in just a few years, and we wanted to see what we might come up with that we'd like to see in future titles. A little bit of whiteboarding later we came up the list below... and would love your thoughts on it!

I should note that any thoughts posted here aren't any sort of official Microsoft communication or commitment. Just because we might all have some good ideas on what a co-op game should look like doesn't mean the industry will necessarily follow them. That said, there are also a lot of great designers and producers out there looking for ideas - something here might just spark a thought they can run with... so have at it! A first stab is below - looking forward to your feedback, and I'll commit to publishing a "final" draft here once everyone's chewed on it a bit (final being relative since these sorts of things evolve over time).

Required Features All Future Co-op Games Should Have In Our Humble Opinion:

All co-op games should allow players to play cooperatively through the rich, single-player experience. Doing so through suspension of disbelief (ie, when cinematics refer to only a single player) is ok, though not ideal.

Players can join a co-op game in progress at any point within the game's story, regardless of their own, personal progress through the game.

Players who join into a co-op game in progress are awarded achievements for their accomplishments, even if they haven’t gotten lead-up achievements. For example, joining a game in progress and then killing the fourth boss gets you the “4th Boss” achievement.

A game that allows co-op online play should also support co-op play locally, either through LAN or split-screen (ideally both). An online subscription should not be required to play co-op locally on a LAN.

Cool, Harder to Implement Features We'd Like to See in more Co-op Games of the Future:

Design core gameplay around the concept of two or more players playing cooperatively together. This means game mechanics or puzzles that require two players to play together to progress, and not simply enabling two people to play through a standard FPS level together. Examples include Splinter Cell Chaos Theory and Army of Two with concepts such as dual-trigger activities (two buttons must be pressed at same time to open door), helping traverse terrain (boost up/rappelling), and combat coordination (dual-sniping, distract guard while companion attacks from behind).

Story and cinematics change to acknowledge additional co-operative players playing through rich, scripted "single player" campaign. Examples include Resistance, Halo 3, etc.

If additional, downloadable content is needed to play the game cooperatively online, consider ways of A) notifying a player up front of that need, B) linking the user to where they can access that content (needed for paid content), and C) if possible, consider sending the content directly to the user P2P.

Build larger-scale co-op campaigns that allow greater than two players to play together. (One example of this are reports of Resistance 2 on the PS3 supporting 8 players playing cooperatively together at the same time.)

[Edit: wanted to point out that Co-optimus is having a great discussion in their forums on this topic, as well as Major Nelson's blog comments on the same. Great feedback folks... keep it coming!]

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Comments

N said:

Agreed and well said.

# March 13, 2008 3:20 PM

Nickj6282 said:

One thing I would add is the ability to do drop-in/drop-out co-op a-la the Lego Star Wars series. It would be nice if players can enter/exit the game at will and not force the other player(s) to restart.

# March 13, 2008 3:43 PM

chewie said:

all fps games (coop and single) AI should contain an aggro or threat assessment script. Meaning if your buddy or a fellow AI teammate is say on a mg the AI should recognize that and be more concerned with him instead of you hiding behind a box 4 miles away. This will get rid of the COD syndrome where enemies only care about killing player one or just the human players.

# March 13, 2008 4:03 PM

Dirk Dorkelson said:

These are great. I might also expand this request to include split-screen, online co-op. What I mean is, most games that have split-screen co-op and online co-op don't allow two people who use the same console (like a married couple) to play online with a third person. Why is this? It's maddening. I game a lot online with two friends of mine who are married, yet we can't play Gears of War or Rainbow Six Vegas because those games -- even though they both feature split-screen play -- don't allow two players on the same console to go online together. So we're stuck playing Halo 3 or Perfect Dark Zero (two games that both support split-screen online play) ad nauseum.

Also, games with more than two player co-op should learn a lesson from Halo 3 and allow players to trigger spawn. I can't tell you how many times in four-player Halo 3 co-op that I've had a teammate spawn right in front of me just as I'm pulling the trigger on my sniper rifle or throwing a grenade. Maddening. There's gotta be a better way.

# March 13, 2008 4:16 PM

prym3 said:

Awesome stuff.  Total Rabbit trail...  You should do the Achievements Bill of Rights next:

1.  If you have stat based achs EXPOSE THE STATS IN THE GAME

2.  Integrate the game with your achs (ala The Orange Box)

3.  Reward players IN THE GAME when they get achs (ala Dead Rising and Mass Effect).

4.  Don't create achievements that encourage stupid behavior (ie don't create achs with actually end up changing how games are played online).  Killing X using Y method ends up with tons of people running around only doing Y.

etc...

# March 13, 2008 4:32 PM

Jazza said:

An excellent idea, and some great suggestions. I'd also suggest having the ability to allow either friends or everyone to join a game, like in Crackdown.

# March 13, 2008 4:59 PM

Ozymandias said:

Good call on the drop-in/drop-out... not sure how we missed that. Will definitely add!

# March 13, 2008 5:25 PM

Alan Au said:

It's always good to remind developers that paying customers want co-op gameplay.  Too often it's just an afterthought if it's included at all.

That said, I'm sooooo sick of contrivances like "two switch" puzzles that are designed to "justify" the inclusion of co-op, as if the gameplay itself isn't compelling enough by itself to entertain multiple players.

# March 13, 2008 5:29 PM

Bronze said:

If there are sections where say, one person is driving, one is shooting, allow each player to choose which they would like to do.

I'm specifically thinking of the Ao2 parachute segments, but there are probably other games that don't allow this.

Overall, though? Make it fun!

# March 13, 2008 5:34 PM

Matt said:

I like co-op experiences like The Simpsons and Obscure but they just needed more to them. More story and plot devices perhaps. More ways to interact together.

# March 13, 2008 5:57 PM

DevsterC said:

@Jazza - "I'd also suggest having the ability to allow either friends or everyone to join a game, like in Crackdown."

Seconded. Someone joining your game in progress can be startling, but if you've set it to friends only that's less likely to be annoying. Drop in, drop out with a friend filter is the best. If you made a gaming appointment to tackle that next level and your friend is 5 mins late, you can start without waiting. I'd also submit that if you (the host) have to drop out, the other guy should be able to carry on.

Whatever happened to the "Future of xbox live" input we offered a year+ ago? Can you comment on whether any has been enacted (or will be in the spring update?)

# March 13, 2008 6:00 PM

Ozymandias said:

Re: "These are great. I might also expand this request to include split-screen, online co-op. What I mean is, most games that have split-screen co-op and online co-op don't allow two people who use the same console (like a married couple) to play online with a third person. Why is this? It's maddening. I game a lot online with two friends of mine who are married, yet we can't play Gears of War or Rainbow Six Vegas because those games -- even though they both feature split-screen play -- don't allow two players on the same console to go online together. So we're stuck playing Halo 3 or Perfect Dark Zero (two games that both support split-screen online play) ad nauseum."

Oh yeah - I hear you on this one... in fact, I just tried to play Rainbow Six Vegas with a friend locally and another online... the lack of split-screen support for co-op action was a *huge* bummer. Will definitely add this one...

# March 13, 2008 6:10 PM

Ozymandias said:

Re: "Whatever happened to the "Future of xbox live" input we offered a year+ ago? Can you comment on whether any has been enacted (or will be in the spring update?)"

As you might guess, I can't go into specifics but I can say that lots of folks on the product teams read that feedback, both here and from over on Major Nelson's blog. I like to think we're pretty good at listening to our customers (even if it takes time sometimes) - I suspect you'll see things in the future that will be interesting. :)

# March 13, 2008 6:14 PM

Slick Rick DO said:

Great post Ozymandias, I would add: 1) not changing/deleting the story elements just because its co-op.  I beat RS:Vegas in co-op but no clue what happed in the story because all the dialog and cut scenes were deleted.  2) Stats need to be consistent between co-op and single player.  If I build up X attribute or earn Y gun in a Co-op game, let me use it in single player.

-SR

# March 13, 2008 6:38 PM

Schuey19 said:

Save features should always allow for the progress to be saved in all of the following ways, and any combination of the 3

"single player campaign"

If someone is just helping you through a level you can continue on after they've left.

"co-op campaign"

If you co-op group is playing through together when the host saves, it automatically saves file on all profiles.

"both"

If you save a co-op campaign you get the option to also save progress as a single player campaign should you wish to continue on without you friends, but you want to be able to go back to that same point when everyones ready to play again.

# March 13, 2008 6:47 PM

Derjester said:

I think Gears of War did Coop extremely well, even though the campaign didn't change at all when played co-op.

# March 13, 2008 7:13 PM

ImaginedBug said:

I'd say the requirements for good co-op for me are all said already, except perhaps that in Gears you'd get separated from your co-op buddy several times, making it far less fun to play through the game. So keep the buddies together.

# March 14, 2008 5:41 AM

Ronan said:

No necessarily specific to co-op games but private multchat should be developed from the dashboard. This will allow more than two friends to chat while playing games. Great when playing games like COD4 so the four(or whatever number of friends) of ye can cooperate in big team battles. No one wants to hear all the usual kids shouting and calling and while I know we can mute them, it'd just be easier to have an inbuilt multichat.

# March 14, 2008 5:47 AM

Rick said:

Ill aggree to most of your points except one, on a pc you can shove that Split screen Coop option up your butt.  No way, never ever have split screen.  Other than that everything else is good.

# March 14, 2008 7:22 AM

Ken said:

THANK YOU.  These are all issues I've been griping about to my friends for YEARS.  Doom had better co-op support than most games of today!

# March 14, 2008 7:59 AM

Illuminatus said:

"It's maddening. I game a lot online with two friends of mine who are married, yet we can't play Gears of War or Rainbow Six Vegas because those games -- even though they both feature split-screen play -- don't allow two players on the same console to go online together. So we're stuck playing Halo 3 or Perfect Dark Zero (two games that both support split-screen online play) ad nauseum."

Gears of War does allow two split-screened players to play online at the same time, but only in player matches. Co-Op is limited to 2 anyway.

# March 14, 2008 8:19 AM

Ozymandias said:

Re: "Awesome stuff.  Total Rabbit trail...  You should do the Achievements Bill of Rights next:"

Good call... things are a bit crazy right now, and we'd like to take everyone's input on co-op first. But I think hitting achievements would be a good place to go as well.

# March 14, 2008 8:23 AM

James said:

Mission-based games can also be co-op -- cf Rainbow 6, Operation: Flashpoint, or Ghost Recon.  Points from this:

* Never, ever, put a timer on the screen in which co-op players organize to begin the mission.  If players want to spend 20 minutes deciding who carries what weapons and planning their operation, that's their business.

* If the game is squad-based, always include the option to fill out the co-op game with AI squadmates in the same manner as is done in single-player.

* When the mission is complete, always maintain the co-op group, in a lobby where they can select the next mission.  Do not force them to repeat the link/join process.

* Optional-but-nice:  Allow the players to select between:  Respawn; Limited number of Respawn; No Respawn.  This allows players of differing abilities to play together without somebody being forced to sit out a lot, and also allows the hardcore to play in Iron Man mode.

# March 14, 2008 9:41 AM

Chas. said:

I believe that too many developers hared off after Carmack with his arena games and dropped co-op.  This is bad since as our demographic ages we are more likely to have a partner that you really don't want to frag.  I think lack of co-op contributed to the rise of MMOs like EQ that began to fill the void.

# March 14, 2008 9:51 AM

Minas said:

I agree to the above, especially including game mechanics that require 2+ players to solve (in single player a npc could take over that part). Think of you having to defuse a bomb (something like disarming traps in Bioshock) while your mate fends off zombies.

Additionally there must be game mechanics that enable you to know where your mates are (how far away, what direction from you, what direction are they facing) their condition (ammo, life, are they in combat, how many mobs are they in combat with).

And finally the no.1 wish: A game is not finished if it has not got a good, working co-op playing mode, IF such a mode is conceivable.

# March 14, 2008 10:21 AM

Ashenkhar said:

Similar to what prym3 said... If a game has co-op achievements, allow gamers to track their progress.

In particular, this always bothered me about crackdown.  Beating every mission with another player.  Did it work if they jumped in 1/2 way through the mission?  Which missions did I complete in co-op again?

I never did get the achievement, and I can't remember which ones I've done co-op and which I haven't.

But, in general, allow for progress tracking on ALL achievements.

# March 14, 2008 11:03 AM

WarriorSan said:

@ Ozy, The last few years I prefer co-op games over multiplayer games (with some exceptions ofcourse ;)) but for me playing co-op games with friends is a blast.

What I would like to see more in the future are games that got a great single player game experience but people can easily drop in to play the same level co-op or even play the same level as a multiplayer map with a few clicks..With some games it's kinda possible already but I would like to see it more integrated as a whole. Now most games are separated as single player / multiplayer / co-op games. Same manner as apps like windows live mail / photo gallery it's both offline and online at the same time..You get the best of both worlds!

WarriorSan

# March 14, 2008 11:25 AM

Warrax said:

Coop games are the best kind of game ever imo but unfortunately, they cost extra money and time so developers tend to ignore that feature :( that's why coop games are rare these days.

# March 14, 2008 12:04 PM

Joe said:

Just a little detail: it would be nice for every co-op game to be allowed to switch to your partner's camera view, preferably accessed via shortcut key. If you happen to know the game a bit better than your friend(s), it's quicker and easier to guide them to a certain spot when you got separated for some reason. Some older games had this feature but I'm not sure which ones now (Doom? Redneck Rampage? Duke Nukem 3D?).

# March 14, 2008 12:11 PM

jon doe said:

omg......to much politics and pen pushers in games...and not enough gamers

# March 14, 2008 2:28 PM

Dev said:

First of all, I agree all co-op games should have these features with the exception that there should be puzzles that require a 2nd player.

But the idea that anyone should have rights over what is in a product is ridiculous.  Nobody should have rights to demand what features games should or should not have, people don't HAVE to buy games they don't like.

# March 14, 2008 4:56 PM

Ozymandias said:

Re: "I'd say the requirements for good co-op for me are all said already, except perhaps that in Gears you'd get separated from your co-op buddy several times, making it far less fun to play through the game. So keep the buddies together."

Any thoughts on how you'd all like to see this accomplished? This is a bit of a tricky one since a game designer has to balance a wide-open world and the ability for a player to road to the desire to keep people together. There are ways to force it (Halo 1's teleporting of companions, for example), but that can be somewhat jarring... thoughts?

# March 15, 2008 10:11 AM

Ozymandias said:

Re: "Coop games are the best kind of game ever imo but unfortunately, they cost extra money and time so developers tend to ignore that feature :( that's why coop games are rare these days."

Yep - very true. I've seen a few comments elsewhere where people seem to think co-op should be a part of *every* multiplayer game. Much as I love co-op, it doesn't come free, and developers and publisher have to decide when and where it makes sense. The hope of this discussion is to capture some of the communities thoughts on what they'd like to see if a game does choose to go down that route - that's all. :)

That said, your comment about co-op being rare is one I'd mildly disagree with. Compared to where we were even just 2-3 years ago, co-op is becoming much more common IMO... pretty exciting!

# March 15, 2008 10:15 AM

dozens said:

The one thing I would like is that all co-op functionality exist for split-screen as well as online.  I find it annoying when I have friends over and can't play certain games with them because they happen to be in my house at that moment, rather than across the country.  

Make this all multiplayer functionality too, not just co-op.

# March 15, 2008 1:07 PM

naysayerbtc said:

my ideal coop game would include multiple stories within one game (think oblivion coop) and at least some element of freeroam/sandbox gameplay- alot like a 'single player' game but with a competitive egde.  keeping to set rules like in a tom clancy game or something is great, but being able to share in basic actions like solving, exploring and interaction is always going to be more interesting. a combination of team work and messing around is important, not the achievements.  

# March 16, 2008 5:23 AM

SiK TactiKz said:

Wow, great topic!

have to agree, all that were mentioned above (by Ozzy) should be a staple.

As far as further ways of improving the experience go, thats tough. Its an unexplored area in many ways.  ms and its respective devs have already pushed the envelope on what 'should' be included, and taken the genre to previously unseen heights...its going to be hard to think of something they havent already. In my opinion, clan functionality should play a role.  It used to in titles like Halo2/etc..but has since disapeared for whatever reason.  By encouraging the consumer to play as part of a team, you should also have the opportunity to band together, form groups, further steep themselves in the storyline or add to it.

More physical options pertaining to character skins, ways of changing your looks, customize your characters, which would subsequently be visible in cutscenes, storyline dialogue, available choices later in-game/in the storyline.

As an example, Army of Two did a few things which I found..well...'perfect' for a co-op title, and hope are included in the future. These being, finding a relevant and very plausible plot; actions that require 2 players to work simultaniously and 'true' co-op structured gameplay...meaning you and your partner(s) are almost forced to work together, or theres no chance of completeing the objective.

Communication: Its key already, but make it absolutely essential. situations where your buddy may not be w/ you, cannot see you or what your doing, but has to do a specific task according to your voice directions.

Use Live to your advantage, have a scenerio where several teams of 2/3 are working together...not on-screen, not on the same Xbox, to complete an objective by each team doing its part separately.  I.E, 1 team (2 players) goes after Objective A, while 2 other teams (also made of 2-3 players) go after other objectives, all of which work towards the final objective.  

ex. 8 players total - 4 teams - storyline designed so that each 'team' can take 1 of 4 diff. routes through a level/map. would likely be easy to implement, would greatly add to the titles replayability and expand the co-op genre in another direction.

# March 16, 2008 9:31 AM

guiguiBob said:

split screen cofiguration. allow me to choose id I want horizontal, or vertical split screen. let me chose the side I'm on (GHIII let me do this)

I think that should be mandatory for split screens.

Individual scores(like Halo3 did) forces a bit of friendly competition between players.

design maps with coop in mind with many point of entry to an arena and many path to flank enemies and use different tactics (Rainbow six vegas did it well)

# March 17, 2008 9:01 AM

Mike said:

Not that they are the end-all-be-all of games, but I have to say games like Super Mario Party's 2v2 games were some interesting concepts for the co-op genre. It's simple to figure out how to interact with each other, but the difficulty of working in unison could be surprisingly difficult (I'm thinking of things like the Jump Rope minigame or the seesaw minigame). They were about coordinating with eachother-more of the three legged race variety of co-op, rather than the relay race variety. Rapelling was mentioned earlier, and that's an easy pick. Co-op offers some opportunities to do things that single player doesn't-so let's not rehash single player concepts in co-op mode. Gears cover and advance, or using the death ray (sorry, only played for about an hour and didn't learn what was what) to kill the hulking beast were good examples, as well as using the revive function (I would love that in almost every game over a simple respawn-there was drama in that process that doesn't happen with a straight respawn). Playing capture the flag in Starcraft kept us going long after we had grown bored of simply crashing into each other over and over.

And yes, most of us are now playing with SOs by our side, and so it needs to be playable by both-having separate skill level settings would be nice so that each can enjoy the game equally. I don't mind if my weapons don't do as much damage, or if 2/3 of the enemy focus on me. I want it to be enjoyable for the person playing next to me, and having that on a sliding scale would let us fine tune that as we go (are we playing 70/30 or 55/45?). But co-op is the most social of experiences, and games that allow us to think and work together are definitely the most enticing over the long run.

# March 17, 2008 2:14 PM

Raoca said:

I forgot to say that I loved the idea of the new C&C: Red Alert allowing co-op in the whole main campaign. Now even RTS are allowing co-op. Isn´t that awesome? :D

They sould do more!

# March 17, 2008 2:59 PM

Rafoca said:

I forgot to say that I loved the idea of the new C&C: Red Alert allowing co-op in the whole main campaign. Now even RTS are allowing co-op. Isn´t that awesome? :D

They sould do more!

# March 17, 2008 2:59 PM

rav3 said:

Uhh Ronan dunno if you still reading this, but you can do what you wanted

just go to the chat option and set up a new channel and then invite your friends to it

# March 17, 2008 3:35 PM

Ozymandias said:

Last week we published some thinking on what we'd like to see of future co-op titles. The problem we

# March 17, 2008 8:30 PM

Corion said:

"A game that allows co-op online play should also support co-op play locally, either through LAN or split-screen (ideally both). An online subscription should not be required to play co-op locally on a LAN."

Should read:

"A Console game that allows co-op online play should also support co-op play locally, either through LAN or split-screen (ideally both). An online subscription should not be required to play Console co-op locally on a LAN.

A PC game that allows co-op online play should also support co-op play locally through LAN (and possibly split-screen). An online subscription should not be required to play co-op, local, LAN, internet, or otherwise."

# March 17, 2008 9:23 PM

Ozymandias said:

Just a quick update - based on everyone's feedback from here and other sites, we updated the Co-op Game Bill of Rights and posted here:

ozymandias.com/.../co-op-game-bill-of-rights-2008-edition.aspx

Enjoy!

# March 18, 2008 5:22 PM

Ronan said:

Hi Rav3,

Thanks for the comment. Unfortunately you can only invite one friend to each channel. You CAN invite different friends to each of the 4 channels but you have to manually switch between each channel. That's my understanding of it anyway. And reading comments elsewhere it looks like you could do multichat on the original xbox !!

Ronan

# March 19, 2008 2:52 AM