The other aspect that worries me is that Nintendo might end up pushing a little too hard to become the party-game platform - which I think will be great in the short term at bringing in new people, but will ultimately result in a console that doesn't support hardcore gamers.

What I think is quite interesting is that Nintendo won't lose money with the Wii console. I am asking myself now how big the production costs for the Wii are and how much money is Nintendo going to earn that way?

Btw. Ozymandias what do you think about the controller pricing? I think most Nintendo fans aren't that upset because of the console price but more because of the really expensive controller. If you want a complete MP Set (4 Wii-Motes, 4 Nunchucks and 4 Classic Controller) you have to pay close to $240. Thats almost as much as you have to pay for the Wii console. Can Nintendo succeed with such expensive controllers, especially as Nintendo is heavily marketing multiplayer with titles like Wii Sports and SSBB.

I must agree with Evilfiek,  the controller  or more specifically the Wii-mote is a bit high.  I have no problem dumping $250 down for the wii.  I want one for myself plus I think the kids will have fun with it.  Hell they all the the ds's I have bought.  But the wiimote ringing in at close to 50 a piece.  Well I'm a little more concerned about that.

I can't say it any better. Looking forward to seeing you back.

Ozy come back we miss your blog posts.  

Taking the "hard-core gamer" blinders off for a second; isn't Nintendo's stated intent for the Wii to expand the marketplace?

If they are successful; the three risks that you mention probably won't apply to these "new" gamers.  The same type of gamer who makes titles like Brain Age and Animal Crossing platinum sellers.

And while this may be seen as a detriment to the "hard-core gamer" set, it's really no different in that regard than to previous console generations.  Those gamers will make the Xbox 360 or PS3 their primary platform while still buying the Wii for their Zelda: Twilight Princesses and Mario Galaxies.  I believe this is being referred to as the Wii60 phenomenon.

And as you've said yourself, this is a business.  If Nintendo does truly expand the marketplace with the Wii (and that's admittedly a big if), Microsoft and Sony both will be forced to play catch-up.

Now putting the "hard-core gamer" blinders back on.  Ozymandias: have you read the latest accounts of Metroid Prime 3's new expert control mode that supposedly does well in emulating a mouse/kb control method with the wiimote?  I sure hope that it pans out because MP3 looks like it rocks hard.

One concern about the Wii that I haven't seen mentioned a lot, is that whenever I see videos of someone using the Wii controller I see a whole lot of wrist movement all the time. Are there no fears that this can lead to serious carpal-tunnel-like overuse injuries? Now, I can play the 360 controller (which is a miracle of ergonomic design) for many, many hours without any discomfort, but I just would never risk more than half-hour sessions (if even that) with the Wii controller.

Oh, and agreed with the previous posters that you need to come back quickly. Aren't the 2 weeks over yet?

I sort-of agree with BrokenSymmetry's concern about carpal-tunnel but am more worried about how tiresome it must be to spend a few hours playing an FPS on the Wii. For example, I got King Kong last Saturday afternoon and had finished it that same night. I bet that'd be physically impossible on the Wii.

Also, Nintendo seems to want people to think of the Wii as the console people use on parties. That's awesome, so it'll be pulled out from under the sheets in the closet 5 times a year on birthdays and aniversaries in case anyone wants to play conductor? The Eye-Toy hasn't become the party piece Sony hoped for either, and neither will the 360's webcam become that.

I completely disagree with you on the issue of pricing for Virtual Console titles. $5 for the original Super Mario Bros. is a steal compared to the $5 ports of crappy arcade titles that have been plaguing the Marketplace this past year. So much for the enhanced HD graphics. I need an effing magnifying glass to play some of the titles you guys are releasing.

Your second post about 3rd-party publisher support is a pretty big one as it speaks to my biggest fear for Nintendo produts in general - lack of games.

While the first-party games have always been excellent, and have compelled me to own Nintendo consoles the last two generations, I've never had a game console gather as much dust as my Gamecube.

The only place I disagree with you is in online features.  Nintendo markets itself to a different gamer than Microsoft and Sony - so I don't think online performance will be as dramatic to their success.  Plus, it really isn't nearly as important to gamers as having plenty of fun games.  I love Xbox Live, but I'd give it up in a second if I could trade it for Microsoft getting Level 5's  "White Knight" or the Final Fantasy games.  (Super excited about Honorobu Sakugichi's two upcoming RPGs too, but I'm making a point).  When it comes down to it, online support adds to the game experience, but you have to have games that are fun in the first place or this bonus doesn't apply.

Nintendo has always delivered really good first party games and those will sell systems.  They can get away with 2nd class online support because their games don't need the enhancement (not that the X360 games need it either really - the great games are what will sell 360's much more than the Live service).

One must remember that this is a business and that those risks must have been thought about before production, and they came to the conclusion that the profits and expanding gamer base was great than the risk they were taking. Look at the Gamecube. Look at N64. They haven't been first for years, but there's no chance of them going out of business.

"Add in uncertainties around their online network, and that the controller won't be so new and exciting anymore"

The analog stick used to be new and exciting. Couple of years later its is not new or exciting. Do people still use it? Yes. Why?

When something works it doesnt need to be new or exciting. If the Wii remote happens to work as it is inteded (a controller everyone can use) then it will be used down the lane without problem for years. This is really a retarded way of looking at things. The world is so full of things that are no longer new and exciting, yet people still use them. Why? Most people dont use things because they are new, only technophiles think that way. People use things because they find them useful.

Also most of the problems you see are harcore nerdy gamplayers problems. Wii is not aimed at people like you. Wii is aimed and people who dont know about specs or graphics, they only know about fun. Also this people mostly dont care about Xbox LIve. They have real friends and they want to play with their real friends, not against anonimous geeks from around the world. They also dont care about scores or achivements.

Oh yes, because the 360 is so cheap to develop for without that "unique controller work," right? There are other ways to garner 3rd party developer support, aren't there? You know, like selling systems in Japan?

"Put yourself in their shoes - why would you do anything different?" I'll tell you what I'd do different, I'd pack in a second controller and NOT get rid of the DVD playback. When you factor those things in, 250 is a great price. When you have to pay 60 bucks for an extra controller and you get a game packed in that has the depth of something at candystand.com, dont make me laugh my ass off and tell me that thing is worth 50 bucks. And neither is the controller worth 60. Quite frankly, Im no communist but I'm not going to overcharge people so blatantly.

We all knew the hazards with this kind of control scheme all the way back at TGS 2005 when this thing was unveiled. This is not a perfect controller for every situation. This is a glorified controller for noobs. This controller is supposed to draw people into the gaming industry but what Nintendo doesnt realize is that they are wrong to assume they have won the heart of the hardcore gamer. They've got a lot of work to do in that department. They pat themselves on the back for the success of the DS and having a zelda game at launch. But Sony faltered with their portable movie player (that's all it is, nothing more) and Zelda has been delayed more times than K-Fed has been called white trash.

Nintendo has the nerve to be selling this thing in multiple pieces, selling you a separate classic controller, probably sell you a light gun or a steering wheel in the future, I mean just look at how much money they're going to make off accessories. They are nickel and diming and ripping and offing. Yes, they need to make money. But where does a LAST PLACE company get the hubris to overcharge you for a controller that you have to buy in pieces?

And just how LOW did Nintendo set the bar? Did any of you guys read the IGN Far Cry for Wii developer interview? There are actually some things that an Xbox can do, that a wii cant. Unbelievable. They are selling you 130 dollars of tech for 250 dollars and you're wondering why people are bitching about being overcharged? Isnt it obvious? Im still going to get a wii but Im pretty sure the battlelines for the current generation will remain the same for the next generation.

Just because Wii had long lines at E3 doesnt mean anything. Go to your EB, go to your best buy, ask people, how many people are really going to get this thing, especially over a ps3 or X360? Who the hell has money left over to buy a Wii after an X360 or PS3 sized purchase? Right now Wii can look forward to a bunch of tasty current gen ports as the majority of its third party lineup. Then what, after that?

And yes, Ive grown too tired to type about how badly they've mismanaged online, which wii owners SHOULD be enjoying on launch day, and the VC catalogue. On XBLA, people can see what you're playing, see your achievements, see what games you've played and all the arcade games have some form of online. Their arcade games let you play online, post scores online, the games are upscaled to high def, etc. For an SNES era XBLA game, 8 bucks isnt that bad for all that value. For a straight port that manages to work without a hitch in your wii and no extra benefits, 8 bucks is laughable. How in the blue hell with lazy ass Nintendo are VC games going to compete? Nintendo hasnt answered questions about this kind of stuff and they need to. Nintendo's secrecy is useless, it serves no purpose whatsoever. Game execs at Sony and MS would rather take a bubble bath than worry about how to counter Nintendo. And if Nintendo becomes irrelevant with Wii after 2-3 holiday seasons, it's their OWN FAULT.

Nintendo is not stupid for the most part but I question my own judgement given the events of the last few months. Look at what they did with the GameCube. That little cube had graphics just as good as the xbox. It packed a ton of power and easily obliterated anything the ps2 had to offer. Only problem was the lack of disc space. Could Ninten

"They are selling you 130 dollars of tech for 250 dollars and you're wondering why people are bitching about being overcharged?"

People value things in different ways. Nintendo is trying to sell normal people 250$ of fun. Most normal people dont understand specs or care about it. They just want to have a good time. Most people buy things as a mean of obtaining benefit from it. Most people wont buy Wii because of the tech inside, most people will buy it to have fun regardless of whats inside.

"On XBLA, people can see what you're playing, see your achievements, see what games you've played and all the arcade games have some form of online. Their arcade games let you play online, post scores online, the games are upscaled to high def, etc."

XBL is oriented toward hardcore gamers. You also have to pay to use it. Nintendo WC is aimed at casual players and you dont have to pay a monthly fee.

BItching abot NWC from a geek POV is pointless. NWC is a great system if you have real life friends and dont care to show the world how good you are at frogger.

I ve try the wii...the controler latency isn t that bad...and i say the console as a big FUN potential...

But the screen resolution seem really low...especially if you play on a HDTV...:(

I think $249 is a good price for the wii, they even give a game with it...however the only real + of the wii is the "3d controler"...and how hard would it be for sony or microsoft to release in few months there own updated version of a"3d controler"...

:) I myself voting for a pair of 3d glove of some sort :)

i don't think price, extra features, or even technical capabilities will propel the next gen victor in two years, it will simply be games. No matter what generation of systems you look at, it has never been the most powerful system or the most unique system that has sold to the highest consumer base, its the system that releases important titles at the right times. You don't trace the history of a console's success by how powerful it was, but by how powerful the game catalogue was.

that said, with a year head start the ps2 was able to maintain its lead with the release of Grand Theft Auto III. If the 360 is to take hold and stay on top, what will its library be selling us a year from now that will make it relevant? I think we could definitely make a sure-fire list... Lost Planet, Dead Rising (already a 360 'classic'), Halo 3, and Gears of War.

what about the Wii? Nintendo has at all of its major franchises releasing a title on that system within a year... Metroid, Zelda, Mario, Pokemon, SSBB.

what about the ps3?

I don't see how price drops are such a concern when comparing with competitors.  The current price for the Wii leaves ample room for competitive price drops unlike the 360 and PS3.

Since the 360 and the PS3 are being sold at a loss from day 1, it is very difficult to have a price drop without an enormous demand for software to recoup the losses.  Microsoft and Sony will already be bleeding from their attempts to slash launch prices in Japan to get more early adopters.

I don't see the price delta shrinking without huge market penetration by the 360 and PS3.

I suspect a big factor in the price of the Wii has to do with it's size, energy consumption, and heat generation.  Being able to compact a console into the size of 3 stacked DVD cases require cutting edge components.  It wouldn't be too surprising to find a slim version of the PS3 and 360 a few years down the road.

As for the controller controversy, controllers for consoles have never been cheap.  A 360 controller with a charging station costs about the same as a Wii remote with nunchuck.  Not everyone will want Virtual console games so those should not be considered vital.  Besides, very few virtual console games will actually support 4 players so most virtual console players will only get 1 classic controller.

First point is a definite pass,

Second point is something that can be fixed through updates (in my opinion anyhow), like comeon, theirs always a time on any online game, any console, when all the servers are shut a day or two for some reconfigurations, then you have to download an update when the server is back up and running...

Third point... well... "cough" ... just consider the fact that Pokemon is STILL selling... and i don't see a problem... sigh...

The main concept for Nintendo’s console and what advocates of the system eulogise about is that it’s to get non-gamers to play video games. How are they going to attract their target audience? I’m not trying to be difficult I simply don’t get it.

MS and Sony are offering multifunctional devices that do other things the non-gamer might be interested in, HD-DVD/Blu-Ray, music, pictures, etc. The Wii lets you wave your arms around, I can’t see non-gamers parting with their cash just for that. If we are talking about family entertainment, parents will buy for their kids, as they always have, it wont mean more units sold, grandparents may play when they come to visit but I can’t see them going out and buying their own Wii. Friends without kids may visit and have a go, but again I can’t imagine them then going out to the local games shop and buying a Wii, especially when they see what MS and Sony are offering, I just get the feeling Nintendo are barking up the wrong tree.

"I don't see how price drops are such a concern when comparing with competitors.  The current price for the Wii leaves ample room for competitive price drops unlike the 360 and PS3."

Gamecube had a big price cut and still no one is buying. If there is no desire then the price cut doesnt do that much. If Wii delivers to its core audience what it promises then Sony or MS wont be able to offer what Wii does, rendering the price cut worthless.

"MS and Sony are offering multifunctional devices that do other things the non-gamer might be interested in, HD-DVD/Blu-Ray, music, pictures, etc."

Wii offers music, pictures, internet browsing, news channel, weather channel. Wii offers that using an easier form of control. Most geeks understimate control since they are able to control consoles and computers very easily.

"I can’t imagine them then going out to the local games shop and buying a Wii, especially when they see what MS and Sony are offering"

Different people have different needs. Thats why GBA and DS are out selling PSP on a monthly basis. Try to think why that is happening all around the world and you will start to get it.

"Third point... well... "cough" ... just consider the fact that Pokemon is STILL selling... and i don't see a problem... sigh..."

Nuff said!!

Also talking about the controller. Where i live a 360 controller cost 50 euros so 60 euros is not really that expensive.

Have you guys ever heard of inflation? If you consider inflation Wii is not expensive.

http://curmudgeongamer.com/imgdisplay.php3?shotfile=console-prices-relative.png

"Wii offers music, pictures, internet browsing, news channel, weather channel. Wii offers that using an easier form of control. Most geeks understimate control since they are able to control consoles and computers very easily."

With the best will in the world what the Wii is offering with regard to multimedia doesn’t come close to what the other two are offering, but point taken :)

"Different people have different needs. Thats why GBA and DS are out selling PSP on a monthly basis"

I thought it was because they started with an almost exclusive market and massive install base, a cheaper price point and a younger audience. Parents are happy to buy their kids a DS/GB, probably not so a PSP. But this isn't the audiance Nintendo are trying to get with the Wii.

It would be interesting to see what the sales demographics are for the PSP and DS.

"With the best will in the world what the Wii is offering with regard to multimedia doesn’t come close to what the other two are offering, but point taken "

Would you care to explain why or would you rather keep writting open statments without backing them up?

"I thought it was because they started with an almost exclusive market and massive install base, a cheaper price point and a younger audience. Parents are happy to buy their kids a DS/GB, probably not so a PSP"

Then why is it that the most selling games on the DS are games designed for adults?

Analizing Wii from a nerdy perspective is such a waste of time. It would be like analizing a ferrari from an ecological point of view. Wii is not design for nerds so there is no reason to moan about it constantly. Nerds have 2 systems to choose from already.

I recomend you all this article.

http://thewiikly.zogdog.com/article.php?article=42&ed=4

The author talks about a few of what he considers pallacies about wii, and most of them come from not understanding what Wii tries to do.

@hum

"Would you care to explain why or would you rather keep writting open statments without backing them up?"

If you like, Sony and MS are both HD compatible, designed to connect to other media devices and in the case of the 360, which I’ll stick with as it’s out, media centre/vista, and stream content from that (or any pc) also usable for extending media centre environment and all the things that can do including web browsing, Online spotlight, weather, Live/Recorded TV, music (your entire music collection), pictures (all of them), etc, basically all the things the Wii can do and more.

Even without the PC connection it can play other media, DVD’s, CDs, and soon HD-DVD (granted with add-on), rip music to the hard drive for playback, both on it’s own or in game, with additional downloadable content that can be stored on the device and optical out for sound. And of course read other devices such as IPod, PSP, or any card device.

The Wii has an SD card reader... oh and that Channel thing which will probably only work in Japan and the US.

They both can play video games as well :)

"Then why is it that the most selling games on the DS are games designed for adults?"

Didn’t realise Nintendogs, Mario Kart, Animal Crossing and New Super Mario Brothers are exclusively aimed at adults! Oh hang on, then we have Brain Age ;)

I agree with MarkS on the whole.  Nintendo are taking a big risk and the only clearly differentiating feature is their controller.

That in itself is not going to be enough.  The games have to be very compelling and of sufficient visual fidelity.  There is a widespread expectation about what videogames should look like these days, typically demonstrated by ads that use pre-rendered visuals and then sneak in a disclaimer at the bottom.  Even if 360 and PS3 games will never look that good, they will exceed the Wii by quite a margin.

Eye-candy aside I think the other issue is how Nintendo can replicate what they have done with the DS. I know quite a few people who have dabbled with my DS, some of whom have then bought their own system.  This is the the sort of mainstream audience that they want for the Wii.  However selling mobile gaming devices to grown-ups is quite different to the home console platform.

Good luck to them but I can't see the 360 and PS3 giving up too much share.

For all the comments about Nintendo's online system. I regularly play the DS online and it is very enjoyable.

For the most part, I just want to play. I don't want to chat, and I don't care against who I play.

For the friends that I want to play with, I have friends codes.

It's not that big of a hassle to enter a few digits once per game. It's not like you have to enter it every time you play.

I do agree that Nintendo is taking a few risks, with the controller, the attempt to gain interest (and sales) of the non-gaming market, and possible poor sales of 3rd party games.  Hopefully it will work out for them.

"I'll give kudos for the virtual console at least - though I do have concerns about the pricing for playing old school titles"

Considering the pricing is at least on par with Live Arcade, what are your thoughts on the Arcade pricing?  $10 for SFII?  Does it matter that most of the classic Arcade games are easily available on cheaply priced compilation disks for every other system, where you'd be hard pressed to find a lot of the Virtual Console games without owning the actual released console?

"If you like, Sony and MS are both HD compatible, designed to connect to other media devices and in the case of the 360, which I’ll stick with as it’s out, media centre/vista, and stream content from that (or any pc)"

You again prove my point. PS3 and X360 are geek toys. Not many people are up the task to set up a home network. That way if you analyse the three machines on their own you will find that your point is wrong again. Im sure a home network as you mentioned its great, but as I said its a geek thing to do.

"extending media centre environment and all the things that can do..."

I thought we were talking about consoles and not about other devices. by the way most of those things Wii can do without the help of a computer.

"Even without the PC connection it can play other media, DVD’s, CDs,"

Most people already can do that without a PS3 or a 360, so you are asking people to spend money on things they can already do.

"ªand soon HD-DVD (granted with add-on),"

No one knows which HD format will win, so most people will wait some time and see what happens making these a non issue, except for the technophiles.

" rip music to the hard drive for playback, both on it’s own or in game,"

Sorry to tell you that this is such a hardcore issue. Most people consider games something accesory in their lifes and most of us wont spend a minute ripping a CD to play it in a game,

"The Wii has an SD card reader... oh and that Channel thing which will probably only work in Japan and the US."

Another statement of yours without any backup. ALso calling it the channel thing shows your ignorance in this matter.

"Didn’t realise Nintendogs, Mario Kart, Animal Crossing and New Super Mario Brothers are exclusively aimed at adults! Oh hang on, then we have Brain Age ;)"

It seems like you did not understand what I ask. For your information there are several games aimed at adults besides Brain Training. Im not surprise you didnt know about them. Those are the games that are fuelling DS success.

At the end i beleive that the problem is that you beleive that most people can hook up their 360 to a pc. From that point of few Wii sucks I agree. But then again thats not the majority of the population. I encourage you to read this:

http://thewiikly.zogdog.com/article.php?article=42&ed=4

You will see that the problems you see are only derivated from a nerdy point of view. There is nothing wrong being a nerd or a geek. But it helps assuming it when looking at things.

"For all the comments about Nintendo's online system. I regularly play the DS online and it is very enjoyable."

I agree. Ive found that people that complain about friend codes are basicly people with no real life friends.

At $249 the wii is the cheapest out of the box game system. That with a few good looking launch titles will be enough for nintendo to take christmas.

Parents looking to buy a game system for kids will pay $249 over the $300+ plus for the 360 or $500 for the PS3.

Normal people who have normal jobs will also appreciate paying less than 300$ for a game system. That is a weeks pay for many people. It looks good, and unlike the 360 and the '3, it promises to be fun.

Fun goes a long way. Would you rather go to a fun party in your friends dirty basement or a Hollywood movie opening with everyone wearing the best clothes, fake smiles and camera friendly banter?

@ ff3rf or hum or Wiii or whomever you decide to be next time you post.

OK last post on this:

I wont go through your post point by point because quite frankly the holes are large enough for a mole in a bag to see through.

You asked me to back up my statement about the other consoles having more multimedia functionality than the Wii, I did this. The fact that you (no matter how many log on names you use) think them not important is irrelevant, the fact is both the 360 and the PS3 can do more things than Wii, whether connected to another device or not. I’m sure if the Wii could do them you’d be praising the functionality.

Your statements about people being unable to connect their console to a PC are quite frankly patronising. If people can’t connect their 360 to the Internet and thus to their PC (as in the vast majority of the cases it’s the same cable) how do you expect them to connect the Wii to the Internet, because in your view this is way beyond the capabilities of the Wii target audience.

You said, “Then why is it the most selling games on the DS are games designed for adults?”

They are not, those games I listed are the ‘most selling’ games for the DS. Yes there are other adult orientated games but they are not the ‘most selling’. If I didn’t understand what you asked it is because you decided to change the question without informing anyone.

You do your ‘cause’ no good whatsoever, and you obviously believe it to be a cause because you bring all the irrationality of a fanatic to the discussion.

@MarkS:

When it comes down to it, game consoles are used to play games.

I've only recently used the PS2's DVD player because the one we have broke down.

I don't even care I can read news or see what the weather is. I have a computer to read news, and I can look outside to see whether it is sunny or not.

Second, it is a common misunderstanding that because a game does not have a gallons of blood meter or AK47's that it is aimed at young people. Mario Kart and Tetris are both great games for adults, if you can think for yourself for a moment. New Mario Brothers might also be very enticing to those who were young when Super Mario World was out on the SNES.

Third, you cannot tell me there are more young people than adults. If you think about it, the PSP is perfect for 18+, yet most of them prefer a DS. Most of the PSPs I have seen are owned by younger people.

It doesn't matter if something is childish or not; if you are having fun, you bought the right thing. Most people I know who have a PSP think it is a cool device, but play few games and aren't enjoying it. But for those who do enjoy it, good for them.

@Joe:

You forgot $500 for the basic PS3, plus $60+ for a game (same applies to 360). You can buy a Wii for your kid and they will most likely be happy with Wii Sports for a while until after christmas for the sales.

"Oh yes, because the 360 is so cheap to develop for without that "unique controller work," right? There are other ways to garner 3rd party developer support, aren't there? You know, like selling systems in Japan?"

I hate to say it but f' Japan. I used to be a big player of jrpgs and what not and haven;t the time as much any more. Looking at my collection be it Rpg / FTS / Action, the ones that pull me in the most are made right here...